Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

H.H. Holmes- Is this a new suspect.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • alex_the_droog
    started a topic H.H. Holmes- Is this a new suspect.

    H.H. Holmes- Is this a new suspect.

    Found this link to a new book about H.H Holmes in which the author claims that HH( who is also his G G Grandfather) was the Ripper.

    Not sure if this is a dubious attempt to sell books or not.

    I know H.H.Holmes was rather committed rather depraved crimes, but i cant recall him being linked to the Ripper case. Also cant find anything on here.

    thoughts

    from hEll
    Chris

    http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...veal-Identity?

  • Mayerling
    replied
    Most commentators of the Holmes-Mudgett Case reject the notion of the Doctor as Jack. Mudgett did have medical credentials (from a school he attended in the 1870s-80s) but he was a swindler and he took the trouble of building that elaborate murder castle in Chicago in time for the 1893 World Columbian Exposition. He also killed men as well as women (he was tried for the murder of his partner Benjamin Pitezel) and children as well as adults. While he might have killed prostitutes, he'd have done it in some secretive place - not out in the open in Whitechapel.

    The first person I know of who suggested Holmes could have been Jack the Ripper was the crime novelist Robert Bloch (of "Psycho" fame). In the 1970s he wrote a novel, "American Gothic" which had a fictional version of Holmes as the villain.

    Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • The Good Michael
    replied
    Originally posted by RivkahChaya View Post
    Well put. Not to mention, the gg-son is in it for the money, but really, I think if your goal was to disprove the theory, Holmes' whereabouts were probably pretty well documented.

    I've known about it since I was a kid. But, then, my grandfather was a newspaper reporter who had the crime beat at the Wichita Eagle for a long time, and he had a lot of true crime books, and collections of clippings. When we visited my grandparents, I used to pore over those books.
    Wichita? Wasn't that where Wyatt Earp got his start?

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • RivkahChaya
    replied
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
    H. H. Holmes as a Ripper suspect is another modern conjectural waste of time.

    From the summer of 1888 through to the summer of 1890 Holmes was obsessed with the design, construction & supervision over the contractors building his house of horrors in Chicago.
    At this point in Holmes's life this was his supreme focus. There is no room for speculating that he could or even would have left his pet project unsupervised to travel to London, England, for no related purpose.

    Regards, Jon S.
    Well put. Not to mention, the gg-son is in it for the money, but really, I think if your goal was to disprove the theory, Holmes' whereabouts were probably pretty well documented.
    Originally posted by Ginger View Post
    I don't think he could have been the Ripper, but Holmes is deeply impressive in his own right, like a Hammer movie come to life. I'm surprised his story's not better known.
    I've known about it since I was a kid. But, then, my grandfather was a newspaper reporter who had the crime beat at the Wichita Eagle for a long time, and he had a lot of true crime books, and collections of clippings. When we visited my grandparents, I used to pore over those books.

    Leave a comment:


  • deadstrings1969
    replied
    Holmes was his own kind of sicko. He was all about making money off his victims not revenge or hatred or anything that would make sense in Whitechapel in my opinion. Whoever did these acts knew the police rounds. That's why Holmes & Tumbelty or any outsider don't work as the killer. And why I believe the only real letter sent was to Mishter Lusk. They were the biggest threat to the killer because they were unpredictable.Then disguised police and such explain the longer periods between killings. I also feel strongly that the dismemberment murders were the next escalation beyond Mary Kelly. Not fact but feeling

    Leave a comment:


  • deadstrings1969
    replied
    Holmes was his own kind of sicko. He was all about making money off his victims not revenge or hatred or anything that would make sense in Whitechapel in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • curious
    replied
    oops, sorry forgot I'd already posted in this
    Last edited by curious; 09-04-2013, 04:36 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beowulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Barnaby View Post
    I watched a show on the History Channel tonight on H. H. Holmes in which the great-great grandson made these Ripper claims. Here, the grandson stated that they have proof that he was a passenger on a boat which sailed to London in July of 1888. Can anyone confirm this? He also claims hand-writing experts match Holmes writing to both the Dear Boss Letter and the From Hell letter (LOL). And of course, the program also claims Holmes was so brilliant that he faked his own hanging and ultimately escaped justice...

    To play devil's advocate: He was a depraved serial killer, medically trained, who fits the modern artist's rendition of JTR (rather well), and made his money selling skeletons and organs of his victims to hospitals. So if he was in London, I would venture to say that he is a better suspect than Tumblety. As an aside, I also find him interesting because he employed numerous accomplices in Chicago. Of course he ultimately killed them and their children too, but maybe there is something to this Team Jack theory...
    I saw the show on Holmes the other night with these claims his whereabouts were unknown during the Ripper murder spree (I didn't mean to make that sound like a fun time or something),

    But there is a lack of proof. I'd like to see some proof. That boat passage would be a good start, but I'm pretty skeptical on this one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barnaby
    replied
    I watched a show on the History Channel tonight on H. H. Holmes in which the great-great grandson made these Ripper claims. Here, the grandson stated that they have proof that he was a passenger on a boat which sailed to London in July of 1888. Can anyone confirm this? He also claims hand-writing experts match Holmes writing to both the Dear Boss Letter and the From Hell letter (LOL). And of course, the program also claims Holmes was so brilliant that he faked his own hanging and ultimately escaped justice...

    To play devil's advocate: He was a depraved serial killer, medically trained, who fits the modern artist's rendition of JTR (rather well), and made his money selling skeletons and organs of his victims to hospitals. So if he was in London, I would venture to say that he is a better suspect than Tumblety. As an aside, I also find him interesting because he employed numerous accomplices in Chicago. Of course he ultimately killed them and their children too, but maybe there is something to this Team Jack theory...

    Leave a comment:


  • curious
    replied
    Originally posted by Digalittledeeperwatson View Post
    Ugh. No, wait... If it can be proven he was in Whitechapel at the time I'll go along with it. Murder was business for that guy. Maybe it would have been a vacation for him. What's life without whimsy?
    I agree. If Holmes happened to be in London at the time . . .

    He killed so many -- and not just the ones he took such elaborate methods to hide the bodies. He killed men, women and children in so many ways and for so many reasons.

    According to the great-great-grandson, Holmes was working on creating a potion to extend life or make people immortal and needed the female parts of reproduction, which may explain the uterus but not why were no ovaries taken? For Holmes was actually a doctor. The great-grandson also said that the main reason for the Whitechapel killings was because Holmes had a guy he was "training" and combined the two with his search for female parts, although he thought women of the age and lifestyle as the WC victims would mean their parts were not fit to be used.

    Also, supposedly in the journal, was an entry that described how much better location they had found in a backyard with a fence.

    Also, one journal post recounted how Holmes killed a matador following a bullfight and he maimed the bullfighter the way the bull had been maimed before the "fight." This death was important in the discussion of JtR because he slit the matador's throat twice. Once to watch the fear in the person's eyes knowing they were going to die, then the second slash to finish the job.

    I'll be interested to see if Mudgett is successful in getting Holmes disinterred to try to prove his theory that he did not die by hanging.

    curious

    Plus, at one point

    Leave a comment:


  • Digalittledeeperwatson
    replied
    All I have to say is...

    Ugh. No, wait... If it can be proven he was in Whitechapel at the time I'll go along with it. Murder was business for that guy. Maybe it would have been a vacation for him. What's life without whimsy?

    Leave a comment:


  • RavenDarkendale
    replied
    Considering the trouble HH Holmes (real name Herman Webster Mudgett) went to to hide the bodies of his victims (He built a special "murder castle with secret rooms and passages) I can't see him killing on the street and leaving the body to be found easily. If indeed he ever went to London at all...

    Leave a comment:


  • Ginger
    replied
    I don't think he could have been the Ripper, but Holmes is deeply impressive in his own right, like a Hammer movie come to life. I'm surprised his story's not better known.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Wheat
    replied
    HH Holmes the Ripper I doubt it. Another man labelled as a Ripper suspect to make a few bucks.

    Leave a comment:


  • vitularia
    replied
    Originally posted by Archaic View Post

    Interesting that Jeff Mudgett says he's a direct descendant of Herman Mudgett (aka H.H. Holmes), because I thought Holmes had only one child, a daughter named Lucy.
    Herman Mudgett married Clara A. Lovering on 4 Jul 1878 in Alton, Belknap, New Hampshire [Ancestry.com, All New Hampshire, Marriage Records Index, 1637-1947] and they had a son Robert L. Mudgett. An entry in the same index for a 1904 marriage for Robert L. Mudgett to Alexandra Gilbert gives his parents as Herman W. Mudgett and Clara A. Lovering.

    Robert and Alexandra had a son, Bertram Harold Mudgett, born 1 May 1905, who died in San Louis Obispo, California 13 Jul 1989 and I believe Jeff is descended through that line. [Ancestry.com, All California, Death Index, 1940-1997].

    Lucy, to the best of my knowledge, has no living descendants.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X