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  • Special Branch Register and Ledger-decison Notice

    I have now had the Information Tribunal decision notice regarding my appeal against The Metropolitan Police and The Information Commissioners decision not to allow unlimited and unrestricted access to Special Branch registers and ledgers relating to 1888. The tribunal have ruled in favour of The Metropolitan Police and The Information Commissioners and dismissed my appeal citing Section 30 (2) of The Freedom of Information Act and their interpretation of that section as the main grounds for dismissing the appeal.

    My interpretation of this part of the legislation and the evidence put before the tribunal was in total contrast. However it should be noted that as far as the public interest factor was concerned which the tribunal also had to consider and had it been engaged, would have overruled the above part of the legislation, the tribunal were not in agreement and this issue was decided on a majority decision against me of two against one.

    The full details of the tribunals decision will be posted on the internet by the office of the Information Tribunal on Monday should anyone wish to read the decision notice in full.

    I have reviewed the decision and will be taking legal advice with consideration being given to lodging an appeal with The Upper Tier Information Tribunal.

    As is known during the appeal process the Metropolitan Police provided me with the details of two entries appertaining to The Whitechapel Murders from the registers which I had identified by viewing the registers in their now redacted form.

    The specific entries referred to were as follows...-

    Under a specific entry titled “Jack the Ripper” the entry reads “The name given to Wilson at Bushmills

    Under a second entry relating to a file submitted by “Chief Inspector Littlechild” the entry reads “Suspect O`Brien & the Whitechapel Murders”

    In addition I obtained from a confidential source details of another entry which is purported to be in the register this entry reads “R Churchill- Perpetrator of the Whitechapel Murders”

    I would like to thank all those casebook members who have supported me over the past three years whilst this long and protracted appeals process has taken place.

    Despite losing the appeal the quest to gain access has not been totally in vain. Including the details set out in the aforementioned police disclosure, we also have the details of two other names said to have been connected to the murders. None of these names would have been forthcoming if the appeal had not taken place.

    In addition during the evidence gathering process to support the appeal other new and significant evidence and information has been uncovered from police files which must now cast a major doubt about the viability of several of the accepted ripper suspects.

    Further assessment and a full evaluation of this new material is still ongoing.

  • #2
    I'm very sorry to hear about this, and the best of lucks if you decide to go for another appeal with The Upper Tier Information Tribunal, Mr. Marriott.
    Thank you so much for posting the names of 3 additional suspects contained in the SB ledgers. I assume that seasoned Ripperologists like Chris Phillips, Rob Clack, Debra Arif would be familiar with those 3 names? My own personal question would be: Is there any known connection between “suspect O'Brien“ submitted by inspector Littlechild, the Fenians, and Tumblety – or even with William Macgrath, just in case?

    Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
    In addition during the evidence gathering process to support the appeal other new and significant evidence and information has been uncovered from police files which must now cast a major doubt about the viability of several of the accepted ripper suspects. Further assessment and a full evaluation of this new material is still ongoing.
    I assume that this refers to Kozminski and Tumblety?
    What about the rumour of a detective agency also being referred in the SB ledgers? Does this pertain to the Pinkerton agency, or by any chance to Le Grand of the Strand?
    Best regards,
    Maria

    Comment


    • #3
      too bad

      Hello Trevor. That is too bad. A bloody shame.

      Cheers.
      LC

      Comment


      • #4
        You don't need to be Rob Clack to figure out R Churchill Maria.

        Monty




        Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

        http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

        Comment


        • #5
          And O'Brien.......

          The Irish Times
          Saturday June 2, 1888

          Some sensation was caused on Sunday by the announcement of the arrest of Dr. H. J. O'Brien, a medical man with a considerable practice, residing at 96 East India road, London, in connection with the extreme Irish Nationalist Party...(Detective Foley told Dr. O'Brien) "You must go to Scotland Yard" and they started to walk in that direction. O'Brien, however, requested (a cab) and they drove to Scotland Yard, where he was brought before Inspector Littlechild...(O'Brien) produced several private letters and asked the police to read them. Inspector Littlechild, after examining the documents, apologised for what had occurred, and asked if he could do anything by the way of paying any expenses (O'Brien) had incurred by reason of loss time, etc. and whether he could do anything to settle the matter.

          Monty




          Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

          http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

          Comment


          • #6
            R Churchill must refer to George Hutchinson's statement to the police
            The detective agency concerned 'Nielsen of Wealdstone'..thanks PC
            And I'm very glad to hear Trevor will fight on as he hasn't got a broken toe.

            And well done Monty.
            ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸, Debs ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,

            I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Debs,

              Still a few leagues below you though.

              So these secret ledgers are seemingly not that secret after all.

              Monty




              Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

              http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Monty View Post
                Thanks Debs,

                Still a few leagues below you though.

                So these secret ledgers are seemingly not that secret after all.

                Monty
                You used to be mentioned in the top three...wonder what you said wrong.

                Not secret..just 'special.'
                ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸, Debs ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,

                I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello all

                  On the subject of O'Brien, the ledgers refer to

                  “Suspect O`Brien & the Whitechapel Murders”

                  The excellent newspaper find of Monty refers to a "connection to the extremist Irish Nationalist party" only.

                  So how do we know this is the same O'Brien?

                  best wishes

                  Phil
                  Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                  Justice for the 96 = achieved
                  Accountability? ....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I used to be ranked 32nd Debs, behind Trennouth and some Dude called Dids.

                    Hmmm, let me think

                    Would Littlechild be referred to with sole regards to the Whitechapel murders? We do know he was involved in cross casework.

                    Does the date of the report fit the period of the murders?

                    Dr O'Brien? Are there any other Doctors we know of?

                    O'Briens private letters were checked? Why? Handwriting analysis or content?

                    Whilst Phil is quite correct, we really should weigh the odds until more information arises.

                    Monty




                    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello all,

                      It seems unlikely to me that this is the same man for 2 reasons.

                      1) The date of the newspaper article is June 2nd 1888..that is two months BEFORE the murders in Whitechapel started. So the reference in the ledgers of a "Suspect O'Brien & The Whitechapel Murders" may well refer to someone else, I think. It is a fairly common Irish name after all.

                      2) Any handwriting analysis could not be compared to any Ripper material as the first JTR letter was three months away, in September.

                      best wishes

                      Phil
                      Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                      Justice for the 96 = achieved
                      Accountability? ....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Trevor.
                        re the 'O'Brien' : It may be worth remembering too that one O'Brien' of that time ,a Matthew O'Brien [aka John Sinclair ,Mr Roberts,Mr Wilson] was a double agent and caused Jenkinson and Spencer great angst when he blackmailed them......but there were several other "O'Briens' connected with both the Fenian movement , the Land league and the wider political scene.
                        Norma

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Extremely valid points Phil,

                          Though my words on O'Brien were more questions than arguements.

                          Monty




                          Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                          http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For some reason, I didn't mention Monty in my top 3 Ripperologist researchers. Possibly for the reason that I tend to consider him in complete tandem with Rob Clack. Thus he was included, if indirectly.

                            Originally posted by Monty View Post
                            You don't need to be Rob Clack to figure out R Churchill Maria.
                            Many apologies, Monty, but the only Churchill I'm aware of is Winston. Not as acquainted with British history as with French history. So sorry for my ignorance. And I'm not sure if the Hutch reference is a joke or not.

                            Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                            The detective agency concerned 'Nielsen of Wealdstone'
                            Might I inquire if this is known through the SB ledgers directly, or otherwise?
                            Thank you.

                            And a little late night conjecture, pretty wild: Could it be that Dr. H. J. O'Brien was arrested/was under suspicion again subsequently to June 2, perhaps in relation to William Magrath and Tumblety?
                            From the article quoted by Monty it appears that O'Brien's letters were examined simply for (Fenian) content.
                            Last edited by mariab; 07-10-2011, 03:43 AM.
                            Best regards,
                            Maria

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mariab View Post
                              ...the only Churchill I'm aware of is Winston.
                              Lord Randolph Churchill was Sir Winston's dad, Maria. He has been suggested as a suspect, but not really very seriously. You can read about him here:
                              http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media...morley/36.html

                              Comment

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