Ripper-Related Victorian Vocabulary

[Cogidubnus]

Sideboard Song

'Ow about the Sideboard song then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEz5o4upJrY&feature=related

All the best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Rabbit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaRZB...feature=relmfu

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Gertcha cowson...

Hi Archaic

For gertcha and some other old East End references you could do worse than:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCWYniJyKE

Chas and Dave were pretty special...rabbit is one of theirs, and is a good'un too!

All the best

[Archaic]

Gertcha

She died in her own house in Eastbourne a few years back, so she did alright for a poorhouse girl from the East End...but she never lost the gab, and right to the end it was "gertcha"....

(which I insert to put us back on thread!)

Thanks, Dave. "Gertcha" was actually new to me.

I found it on this page of slang definitions: http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/browse/ZG.HTM

Lots of good slang terms on that page; I kept getting sidetracked on my way to gertcha.

Cheers,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

That's interesting; as an American I tend to think of the workhouses as things of the distant past, but apparently some of the old buildings were converted into hospitals, etc.

Is this the one where your Mum was born? http://www.workhouses.org.uk/StGeorgeInTheEast/

Yes that's the one. She was born in 1928, when it had been taken over by Stepney, and a couple of years before it became a hospital. They used to sanitise the birthplace on birth certificates by giving a notional address as the birthplace - in this case 3 Raine Street.

She died in her own house in Eastbourne a few years back, so she did alright for a poorhouse girl from the East End...but she never lost the gab, and right to the end it was "gertcha"....

(which I insert to put us back on thread!)

All the best

Dave

[HelenaWojtczak]

The workhouse site is indeed a wonderful resource and I applaud the man who developed it (I wrote to congratulate him).

I was also born in what used to be a workhouse.

Helena

[Archaic]

[QUOTE=Cogidubnus;230732]Hi Archaic

That Workhouses site is a cracker...I've visited it often...my poor old Mum was born in the "House" at Raine Street...so I've something of a special interest!
QUOTE]

Hi Dave.

That's interesting; as an American I tend to think of the workhouses as things of the distant past, but apparently some of the old buildings were converted into hospitals, etc.

Is this the one where your Mum was born? http://www.workhouses.org.uk/StGeorgeInTheEast/

Best regards,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Archaic

That Workhouses site is a cracker...I've visited it often...my poor old Mum was born in the "House" at Raine Street...so I've something of a special interest!

All the best

Dave

[Archaic]

Casebook Page for 'A Night in the Workhouse'

Here's the Casebook page for 'A Night in the Workhouse', with related links indexed below:

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/victorian_london/book_detail.html?id=6dfcb0a1654bfb732303c306f5e103b0

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

'A Night in the Workhouse' by James Greenwood

Was he the chap who did a kind of expose of the cheap lodging houses?
I recall reading something a couple of years ago, apparently an item of clothing could be used as a deposit (I wonder if that's where the phrase 'they'll have the shirt off your back' came from?)
Anyway I remember whoever handing over 'a certain garment' in a handkerchief to the landlady.
All the best.

Hi Martin.

Yes, you're correct. James Greenwood was one of the pioneers of Investigative Journalism. His brother Frederick Greenwood was the first editor of the Pall Mall Gazette, which published their story 'A Night in the Workhouse'. James and a friend named Bittlestone disguised themselves in rags and spent a night in the Lambeth Workhouse Casual Ward. They had quite a harrowing experience, and the public was fascinated.

Here's the article, including the bit about handing over their clothes, courtesy of a fantastic website called Workhouses.org -

'A Night in the Workhouse': http://www.workhouses.org.uk/lit/Greenwood.shtml

Thanks very much for raising this subject, Martin. And I echo Ruby in asking you to stick around; I've greatly enjoyed your contributions.

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

Thieves' Cant

(Bunny -once again - just how do you know so much ? Give me your secret....!)

Hi Ruby.

Osmosis.

Assisted by a lifelong addiction to reading.

I can't imagine why 'thieves' have anything to do with it, except that it might mean the origin of the word. A "nark" has always meant "informer".

Hi Jon.

"Thieves' Cant" is what those who studied language, jargon and slang in the 19th C. termed the jargon of the criminal underworld. It's simply a form of language classification based upon origin. The term "cant" is used because the true meaning of the words was only known to a certain subset of the population.

It wasn't necessarily only "thieves" who used it, but that was the early term for the "criminal populace".

When cant terms are new they function as a secret language; as they become more widely known they become a sort of "street slang".

And after that they often become annoying clichés.



Archaic

[Wickerman]

Here are two 1890 definitions of the word 'Nark', both derived from what is called "thieves' cant", the slang language employed by thieves:

1. [I]'Nark, or copper's nark' (thieves), a man or woman who is a police spy upon his comrades or class.

"He had a nark with him, so I went and looked for my two pals, and told them to look out for S. and his nark." — Hanley: 'Jottings from Jail'.

I can't imagine why 'thieves' have anything to do with it, except that it might mean the origin of the word. A "nark" has always meant "informer".

Jon S.

[Rubyretro]

Martin -please stick around Casebook ! (Bunny -once again - just how do you know so much ? Give me your secret....!)

[martin wilson]

James Greenwood

Was he the chap who did a kind of expose of the cheap lodging houses?
I recall reading something a couple of years ago, apparently an item of clothing could be used as a deposit (I wonder if that's where the phrase 'they'll have the shirt off your back' came from?)
Anyway I remember whoever handing over 'a certain garment' in a handkerchief to the landlady.
All the best.

[Archaic]

"Nark"

Here are two 1890 definitions of the word 'Nark', both derived from what is called "thieves' cant", the slang language employed by thieves:

1. 'Nark, or copper's nark' (thieves), a man or woman who is a police spy upon his comrades or class.

"He had a nark with him, so I went and looked for my two pals, and told them to look out for S. and his nark." — Hanley: 'Jottings from Jail'.

This seems to have some connection with the Dutch narruicen, to follow about, spy, and narrecht, information.

2. 'Nark', (thieves), to watch, observe, look after or into closely.



I also found an 1859 definition of "Nark", but they spelled it as "Nard" with a "d". Perhaps this is because it was so new a slang term that its spelling hadn't been standardized?

Here is the 1859 dictionary entry giving the source:

'NARD', n. A person who obtains information
under seal of confidence, and afterwards breaks
faith.—Times, Police case, April 2, 1859.

I'm curious to know if anybody has seen an earlier use of this word?

Thanks,
Archaic

PS: Many modern dictionaries claim that "nark" is short for "narcotic" or "narco" and dates to the 1930's, but the word had an earlier derivation and meaning.