Primrose League

[Debra A]

I don't think Le Grand ever stated he'd been employed by Lewis, only that they had met. He claimed to have been employed by Soames.



Lewis did not specify a date. Did not Pigott give evidence earlier than February?

No?



Lewis said Le Grand and Scanlan visited him and mentioned Le Grand visited him just before Pigott gave evidence, Feb last [speaking in June 89]

[mariab]

The Fenian fire I've heard of. I didn't even know it was the same as Campbell.

[lynn cates]

Fenian Fire

Hello Tom. It's his Fenian Fire. I am thinking of part 9, "The Commission."

Do you have that one?

(His name is Christy.)

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Thank you SO much, Lynn! You've already emailed me scanned pages from Fisher and Butterworth pertaining to the Okhrana (which I've gone through, and will again), plus I have your CIA reports pdf files about the Okhrana, which I still need to peruse. But my first priority is Tom's Berner Street Part 2 Ripper Notes article, because I'd like to read up (among else) about the OTHER Berner Street Club. I might manage to read this article tomorrow, between doing errands and meeting friends.

Quote Tom Wescott:
What's the name of Campbell's book? What's his first name?
You got this off the tip of my tongue.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Lynn, that would be much appreciated. What's the name of Campbell's book? What's his first name? Thanks!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Maria. I believe that's possible. I shall not hurry as you, like me, are pressed for time, and can't get to them for a bit.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Hello Lynn.
Would you perhaps consider emailing me some relevant scanned pages from the Campbell book? I would endlessly appreciate it. I don't know if I'll be able to read them before late next week though, as I'm covered to my ears with work. (That's why I'm staying in on a Friday night.) If I manage to finish up with my editorial deadlines by late next week, I might be able to conclude my readings and conduct some research in Ripperology soon.
(Problem is, I feel so lazy, I might end up spending the night watching DVDs instead of working. Rotten to the core.)

PS.: I bet Tom already has the Campbell book.

[lynn cates]

Campbell

Hello Tom and Maria. A good bit of this is discussed in Professor Campbell's book. Although I think it is disallowed on Casebook, perhaps I can scan some interesting passages and send them along--without posting?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

I don't think Le Grand ever stated he'd been employed by Lewis, only that they had met. He claimed to have been employed by Soames.

This is truly intriguing. We gotta figure it out. What my gut feeling's saying (for whatever's worth) is that if Labouchere and Lewis and Parnell suspected Pigott, Soames might have done as well, while still being anti-Parnell, but needing to protect his newspaper.

Lewis did not specify a date. Did not Pigott give evidence earlier than February?

Wikipedia says Pigott admitted before the Parnell Commission in February 1889. But it's just wiki, and I don't have another reference to look up quickly.

I need to get one as well. I doubt there's more than one or two. Amazon is for new books, for older books you should use abe.com.

Yeah, ABEbooks is great for buying older stuff. But I'll try ordering the 2 ones cited in my post #64 through inter-library loan, which doesn't cost a thing (and takes about 4-6 weeks). The Berliner Staatsbibliothek will probably feature a few books on Parnell, but no time to look now. I also bet that Lynn Cates might own a few books on Parnell, and give us the headsup. I'm not buying unless I read them first, or at least hear an opinion.

By the way, on Pigott I've only found this, which might be available in libraries in the UK, and likely to be ordered in the US:
James O'Connor: Recollections of Richard Pigott, London, 1889.

[Tom_Wescott]

As an insignificant side point of interested, the ex-inspector hired by George Lewis to protect Dr. Morris and investigate Le Grand was a fellow named Clarke. He is the focus of an entire chapter in the book I'm reading, Lewis and Lewis. Apparently, Lewis saved the inspector from disgrace (and losing his pension) in the 1870's.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

I think Le Grand first mentioned he was employed by Lewis as a detective on the Parnell inquiry at the Malborough Magistrates Court, this was then discussed again at the following Old Bailey trial, where Lewis said he had not recognised Le Grand until he metioned the incident at Malborough. Le Grand must have elaborated somewhat by the OB trial for Soames, Labouchere and Pigott to be mentioned.

I don't think Le Grand ever stated he'd been employed by Lewis, only that they had met. He claimed to have been employed by Soames.

Lewis claimed Le Grand showed up at his office just before Pigott gave evidence in Feb 89, in the latter stages of the inquiry.

Lewis did not specify a date. Did not Pigott give evidence earlier than February?

I might buy some books on the Parnell Commission, but no more than 2.

I need to get one as well. I doubt there's more than one or two. Amazon is for new books, for older books you should use abe.com.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Yes, clearly the Primrose League members would be more than keen to defend England's most prominent conservative newspaper (AKA The Times).

Have you seen this debate in the Hansard (including paticipation of Parnell), already mentioned in my post #64?
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1887/apr/18/adjourned-debate-seventh-night

[Lechmere]

Maria - the Primrose League were only mentioned as an MP from the Irish Parliamentary Party stated that if a member of the Primrose League was somehow on a jury (and as there were a lot of members of the Primrose League there would be a good chance of this happening) that heard a posible libel case against the Times, they would instinctively find the paper not guilty and thus frustrate the action and so it was futile taking that course of action. I think.

[mariab]

I had NO clue that Lewis was representing Dr. Morris! (I probably missed it in Examiner 2.) Thank you so much for the information, Debs.

Le Grand was stated to have said he had been employed by Lewis, why the mention of Soames come up is not clear.

Yes I know. Maybe we'll manage to figure it out.

And have a nice evening out.

[Debra A]

Maria, just quickly because I'm on my way out.
To clarify; It was Le Grand's magistrates court hearing that was held at Malborough, for blackmailing Malcolm Alexander Morris. Lewis was representing Dr. Morris. The case was then sent to the Old Bailey for trial. This has nothing to do with the Parnell Inquiry. It was just that the subject of Le Grand working on the Inquiry was brought up in the Morris blackmailing case, but none of the exact details of the questions asked about Le Grand working for Soames are known. Le Grand was stated to have said he had been employed by Lewis, why the mention of Soames come up is not clear.