Profiling

[Fisherman]

"To the bin with him, I'd say, and throw away the key!"

I´d like to see that book of his first, Maria. It promises to be a damn good read!

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

I agree with everything you say, Fisherman, and I have the exact same “gut feeling“ as you pertaining to Le Grand's crimes vs. the Ripper murders, as in their coming from a different frame of (sick) mind. On the other side, I wouldn't totally refuse to consider that Le Grand would disembowel someone post mortem. His threat-letters to the ladies he was proposing to explode contain graphic descriptions about what would happen to their body after his devices exploded, so Le Grand definitely had thoughts about such, and we have proof that he experienced delight while thinking about mutilated bodies. Le Grand was clearly a sociopiath, only he didn't keep a low profile in his aspirations to intimidate others, which ended up in his demise, as he wasn't able to fool the police for very long, and eventually he got arrested. Also, IF Schwartz's testimony about BS and Pipeman is truthful, we might have evidence that the Ripper attacks fitted with Le Grand's MO, and that they were not the furtive blitz-attacks that most people imagine.
About Bundy working for the suicide prevention hotline, it clearly wasn't just for cover, as there was certainly voyeurism and latent sadism there.
As for Buono/Bianchi, I too see parallels, both with Le Grand and with the Ripper murders (as in the prominent display of the bodies).
As for profiling Wescott, did anyone notice what he typed when he wrote to me? “Prey tell what acts of physical violence“ –“Prey“, not “pray“! Is that the mother of all Freudian slips, or what?! He evidently sees me as “prey“! To the bin with him, I'd say, and throw away the key! Hey Wescott, your days walking around unbound are counted! We're already on to you, and the “writer/researcher“ cover doesn't do it anymore!

[Fisherman]

Maria writes:

"As for Bundy, I've heard that his (recorded) sessions at the suicide prevention hotline were manipulative and inquisitive for self-gratification"

One more thing that applies here is that Bundy was a sociopath. And sociopaths are quick to pick up on how other people perceive moral. They cry when other people cry, they mourn when they are supposed to - but they do it in imitation and not as an act of true sorrow. Inside, they feel nothing at all that relates to moral. If such a person realizes that he could gain respect and sympathy by working with suicide prevention hotlines, he will do it - but not to help anybody but himself.

"The one factor that bothers me a lot since it doesn't fit with Le Grand as having been the Ripper is the disembowelment. "

Technically, he may have been able to do it. Morally, he may have been able to do it. If he saw gain in it, he may have been able to do it. But a disembowelment à la Le Grand would have been a different crime altogether than Jacks deeds whichever way we look upon it.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Tom W:

"I don't know why people get hung up on this pimp thing."

Because he WAS a pimp, Tom - and that says something about him and his relation to women. One such thing is that he would probably have enjoyed "normal" sexual relations with these women, and that too says something about Le Grand. He would not have been a man who was confused by his own sexuality, by the looks of things. The Ripper, though, would not have been a man to whom sexuality was a casual and easily handled joy if you want my opinion.
They would have been men of very differing characters, Tom, and I think that it is completely logical that we know of Le Grand and his escapades, whereas the Ripper´s identity remains hidden to us. The answer to that difference lies in the differing characters of the two men, I should think.

As for my comparison of Le Grand and Buono, I was merely trying to point out that a pimp CAN be a serial killer, something that I myself would normally oppose against to some extent; the purposes and ways of the normal pimp makes him a very irrational serial slayer of prostitutes. As for the comparison on a more personal level inbetween Buono and Le Grand, I do think it has a few things going for it.

"Out of the long list of Ripper suspects I would say he's the ONLY one we can point to with any authority and say "Yeah, I could see him disemboweling women," because in no other suspect's case is there any reason at all to suspect him of this kind of violent murder."

"We" cannot see him disemboweling women, Tom - you can. And there is no reason at all to suspect Le Grand of that particular kind of violent murder either, I´m afraid! In fact, as far as I recall, there is no proof for Le Grand ever murdering anybody at all. And much as I have very little trouble believing that he actually may have killed, I feel equally certain that he may well have bragged about such a thing to put fear into people and to heighten his own self-esteem. That too, actually, may well have been another detail that told him apart of the Ripper.

The best,
Fisherman

[The Good Michael]

"Wait a sec, Mike - aren´t you profiling Tom himself here ...?

Of course I was. American humor, you sluggard of a Swede

Mike

[mariab]

For Tumblety we have indeed NO material evidence whatsoever of him having committed any crimes, but we have the testimony by his acquaintances about his deep hate for prostitutes and his alleged collection of female organs, IF we could manage to corroborate this convoluted story. (Which so far noone has managed to corroborate.) It still needs to be cleared out if Tumblety was followed by the Scottland Yard as a Ripper suspect or as a Fenian (or both!).
I'm not considering Chapman seriously as a candidate.
And for Le Grand, another detail that bothers me in his “profiling“ is that the prostitutes he was witnessed attacking were younger and I assume relatively attractive, not old and used up as the first 3 Ripper victims.

[Tom_Wescott]

Of course the acts of violence you cited are different from disemboweling, because the motives were different, but they're still quite physical acts of violence, so we're not talking wife poisoning here. And in Tumblety's case, prey tell what acts of physical violence do we have against him that so much closer to the Ripper crimes than what we see in Le Grand?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

By the by, the “angel of death“ suicide unabler over the internet was Dr. Melchert-Dinkel.
As for Le Grand, cutting up people lightly on the face, beating them up, and pushing them under an incoming train illustrate a VERY different MO and a very different kind of rage than the Ripper's postmortem mutilations and their “investigatory“, trophy saving nature. On the other side, Le Grand's plans of blowing up people would have provided similar results with the Ripper mutilations. So I really don't know. I NEVER said I'm not keen in considering Le Grand as a suspect for the Ripper.
Still, I'm not prepared to give up Tumblety yet, as so many have done. I'm waiting with great interest for the further results of L.J. Palmer's ongoing research.
Plus, Jacob Levy and even Joseph Barnett look good too. (And I don't care in the least if people start attacking me for mentioning Barnett along the main suspects!)

[Tom_Wescott]

The one factor that bothers me a lot since it doesn't fit with Le Grand as having been the Ripper is the disembowelment.

Comments like this go completely over my head. Apparently, somewhere is a massive dossier covering every element of Le Grands personality, activities, thought processes, etc., and everyone has access to it but me. The man had a friggin' weapons arsenal for Begg's sake, and knew how to use it. He wanted people dead, he tried to kill cops, he liked watching women bleed, he tried to make women explode. Out of the long list of Ripper suspects I would say he's the ONLY one we can point to with any authority and say "Yeah, I could see him disemboweling women," because in no other suspect's case is there any reason at all to suspect him of this kind of violent murder.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Fisherman,
I agree with everything you wrote, and esp. with this:
Fisherman wrote:
Le Grand, in all probability, was convinced that he knew how women think and function - that is a trait of "honour" of every pimp. Jack, on the other hand, would have been totally confused when it came to this subject.
The one factor that bothers me a lot since it doesn't fit with Le Grand as having been the Ripper is the disembowelment.
As for Bundy, I've heard that his (recorded) sessions at the suicide prevention hotline were manipulative and inquisitive for self-gratification, not characterized by true professionalism. And I don't know about any medals.
A job at a suicide prevention hotline or a job as a nurse/hired help for the sick, the elderly, and the mentally ill runs the possibility of attracting sadists and “angels of death“, as it certainly has before, in numerous cases. There was even this guy recently (don't recall his name or location) who posed as a psychiatrist on the internet and succeeded internationally in convincing several people to commit suicide on camera in front of his eyes, until he was caught last year or whenever it was.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Fish,

I don't know why people get hung up on this pimp thing. Le Grand was a criminal first and foremost, with probably a pretty decent trail of bodies behind him. His common law wife was a Madame and he was her enforcer. He didn't go around beating his own women, but did other prostitutes, and claimed to have committed murder. We know of him through his lesser crimes and its said that they could not get him for his worse crimes, which makes sense.

And there is absolutely no cause for comparison between Le Grand and those stupid Hillside guidos.
Personally, I can't see a suicide prevention hotline worker with medals for heroic valor being a serial killer, but I wouldn't have let Ted Bundy walk based on that alone.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Corey, I was just kidding in my post! I of course would not imply any phony stuff involved in your profiling, and I look much forward to seeing it.

Tom, I know full well that you are not putting all your apples in just the one basket. I realize that you find Le Grand fascinating, and he is, no doubt about that. From what I´ve seen dug up about him, he deserves being ranked high up on the suspect list (although this to a significant extent depends on the fact that there are very few rational suspects about to compete for the title). I look, as I´ve said, much forward to your forthcoming further presentation of him.

I suppose that you have already realized the obvious parallel hidden in the Hillside strangler case - Bianchi and Buono ran a pimp business too, just like Le Grand did. They were extremely cruel people too, mostly Buono, just like Le Grand. On the surface of things, they seem a useful comparison, and sure enough, a man like Angelo Buono may have been very much alike Le Grand, a short fuse, a flamboyant temper, a ladies man - and a sadist.

So where lies my problem with Le Grand? Well, so far, it lies with the fact that it is not Le Grand and Buono we should compare - it is Jack and Le Grand. And Jack was NOT the kind of killer that Buono represents. Where Buono kills for the joy of inflicting pain and seeing his victims suffer, raping and tormenting them, Jack does nothing comparable at all. He kills as fast as he could, securing the silence he needs to set about what he really came for: the mutilations.

Le Grand commanded control of women. He obviously did not like them, and he may well have thought them expendable. Although I strongly suspect that he he was much more interested in what living prostitutes could do for him, than he was in killing them, it can of course not be excluded that he may have harboured a serial killer within. But if he did, then that serial killer would not have killed in the manner Jack did, if you ask me. Nor would he have chosen the type of victims that Jack chose, once again if you ask me.

Le Grand, in all probability, was convinced that he knew how women think and function - that is a trait of "honour" of every pimp. Jack, on the other hand, would have been totally confused when it came to this subject - for the third time if you ask me.
Putting it otherwise, I feel quite convinced that although I have no certainty and very little idea what Jack was, I feel quite convinced that he was NOT a pimp! Pimps typically enroll their tradeswomen by masquerading as their lovers, only to turn afffection into fear on behalf of the women later on. Can you see Jack the Ripper doing that, Tom? I can´t.

I don´t know if this makes sense to you, Tom. I know it does to me.

The best,
Fisherman

[corey123]

Hello All,

Tom is correct in saying that I had no prior knowledge of Le Grand before writing my essay. I just started to read his essay this week.

I must add also, that the essay that might be in the Examiner this December has nothing to do with Le Grand, it was only an odd coincidence that it fits Le Grands personality. I also don't adopt Le Grand as my personaly suspect(at least not yet) so the essay is not biased(at least by external means).

I might like to add that the "profile" Tom describes is only a part of the full essay and is not the headline of it. It's part of it but the essay itself if about something different.

Hope that clears some things up.

Edit, I want to add that Tom Wescott had no hand in writing my essay, I sent it to him a while ago to read to see if it might be worth publishing and thats how he found out about it.

Yours truly

[Tom_Wescott]

Thanks for that, Fisherman. While Le Grand is my preferred suspect, I am by no means convinced that he was Jack the Ripper, thus enjoy considering and exploring other suspects, particularly new ones. But I feel that at the present time the best case can be made against Le Grand, and it's a case that blows suspects such as Druitt, Tumblety, Bury, Levy, etc. completely out of the water.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

"However, it should be noted that Corey knew nothing at all about Le Grand when he prepared his profile."

Yeah, yeah; circus magicians push the same crap: "Can I please have somebody from the audience to help me ... Hello there, what´s your name then?", and then his sister walks up on stage, and whaddayouknow ...!

Seriously, Tom, it´s good to hear that you stick your chin out when it comes to Le Grand. Should be interesting to see that profile (must ´ave been a tall Danish pimp by the looks of it, Guv!), just as I´m looking forward to that book of yours. As you know, I am everything but convinced that Le Grand was Ripper material, and I fear that those who judged him so at the time it all went down would have been looking for somebody who was prepared to go to any lengths in his criminality, a devil of a man, more or less. And that, Le Grand would have been. The Ripper, though ...
By the bye, don´t look for the name Nelson if you are going hunting for your man in Danish registers. The commonest form by far of that name is Nielsen. Another example is "Battling Nelson" a Danish boxing world champion (and a hopeless drunkenbolt) from the beginning of the former century. He was named Oscar Nielsen, but somehow the Nielsens of this world seem to be anglicized into Nelsons. Happy hunting, Tom!

The best,
Fisherman