Crucial Information regarding a Ripperologist

[The Good Michael]

Steven,

Your post is mentioning again a suggestion that never occurred.

Mike

[Steven Russell]

Researchers discovered that Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, aka Lewis Carroll, was guilty of certain activities that were similar in kind, but nobody has yet suggested that "Alice in Wonderland " should be banned.

Absolutely, Natalie. I do not believe we should ignore knowledge or discoveries because we have found their originator to be morally objectionable. For example, and on a much larger and more important scale, discoveries made by Nazi scientists cannot and should not be "undiscovered" however repugnant the politics and methods of the individuals concerned might have been.

Besides, deleting posts and articles would, I feel, be a very unwise precedent to set. It could even be seen as a cover-up by some. That's right, a genuine Ripper cover-up. It is clear that many people have been saddened and disillusioned by this whole sordid business but retrospective censorship is not the answer.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[The Good Michael]

Hey!

Bob suggested deleting this thread. No one suggested deleting Andy's posts. I think the idea is to move on from this particular case. I tend to agree with Bob on this.

Mike

[Ally]

Look the issue of deleting his posts is a non-starter. It's not going to happen so don't bother thinking about it. He has hundreds of posts on the active boards, and if they were deleted you'd have whole threads that suddenly made absolutely no sense whatsoever, with half the posts missing and people responding to posts that aren't there any more. He has hundreds of posts on the old boards that are frozen and can't be deleted as they are basically one big data chunk. So the whole issue of deleting his posts is going nowhere--it's not possible.

And frankly, let it serve as a reminder. As someone who recently got called all sorts of names and was screamed at and apologies demanded by persons incensed that I said I don't trust people when I've chatted with them twice a week for a whole 3 months, frankly, I think the wake up call was needed.

This is someone we've all known and chatted with for years. He's been to some of our houses, he's invited some of us to his. And still...

You never know. You just don't.

[tnb]

I think the 'mistake' Adam was referring to was the potentional one of the identification of this Andrew Spallek with Andrew Spallek the ripperologist, JTRSickert. While it is seeming increasingly unlikely, we do have to keep that in mind, as Bob and Robert say.

I agree that to attempt to pretend this person (if...) was never here would be ill-advised, and not only because it wouldn't work. As Claire rightly says, any internet 'population' will broadly represent the make-up of the larger human population, both the good and the bad (and the vast majority inbetween). As she also says, any specialist interest such as ours will always run the risk of attracting a few more oddballs than elsewhere, both harmless and - occasionally - otherwise. I don't think any of us would want to see a situation where some kind of vetting system is in place for new members, besides which it would be impossible to design one which would have prevented this situation (if...). Therefore, we have to take the rough with the smooth, as hard as that may be.

That being the case, I do not believe that going around deleting posts, podcasts or whatever would not be the right course of action, not only because of the above but because others would have contributed to those discussions who have done nothing wrong and whose opinions would also be unjustifiably disposed of, or at the best diluted. What I did say earlier in the thread, however, was that it is an unknown quantity how people would feel about seeing them now. I certainly will get a bit of a shiver down my spine if and when I come across one, and I doubt I am the only one.

[Natalie Severn]

Researchers discovered that Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, aka Lewis Carroll, was guilty of certain activities that were similar in kind, but nobody has yet suggested that "Alice in Wonderland " should be banned.

[Robert]

Well, if indeed it was him - not questioning your word, Sickert, but we haven't seen the evidence that you have - I don't see any point in deleting his posts. The fact is, the guy did discover certain things. How can we unlearn what we have learned? And it would be dishonest to delete his posts, and then for one of us to do the same research and claim the results as their own. So unless there is some hole in his research, I don't see the point in deleting it.

[JTRSickert]

I don't know Andrew personally, but like everybody else, i've been pretty shocked to read about this - it was only a short time ago that I was reading with interest one of his excellent articles - "Montague John Druitt: Still Our Best Suspect" from Ripper Notes a few years back, in the process of doing research on Dr. Lionel Druitt.

I guess that all we can do for now is to cling to the hope that it's been some sort of horrific mistake.....

Cheers,
Adam.

No mistake, Adam.

He was indicted on federal charges and had13 images of it on his computer, and he pled guilty.

Nuff said.

[claire]

I agree with you, Brenda...removing his posts isn't an answer at all. Leaving his posts up (if it is him, cf. Bob) doesn't mean we support or don't care what he's apparently done, it's just an acknowledgement that people are rather more complex, for the good or the bad, than we might find easy to deal with. If his work was good, let it stand. God knows, there have been plenty of people whose work was astonishingly good, but whose deeds were quite reprehensible. Removing all evidence of a person doesn't remove the negative things they've done.
As others have said, the internet opens us up to contact with all sorts of people, the character of which we cannot know. I'd have thought a site such as this, with its subject matter, would attract its fair share of troubled souls. It is remarkable, and a testament to the administrators and community here, that they seem few and far between.
All up, though, a very sad and upsetting thing.

[JTRSickert]

Has it been definitely established that these are the same people? If not I would suggest that this thread is removed.

I remember reading an article in a newspaper once where the police were looking for a 26 year old sailor called Robert Hinton for a murder. This chap was the same age, same occupation and even looked a bit like me, it was a bit strange to see that. Coincidences do happen.

Bob,

Due to my personal correspondence with another fellow Ripperologist, I was able to confirm that our Aspallek and the one in the article are both, in fact, one and the same.

[Celesta]

Oh Jesus!

Well I suppose if you take a large enough sample of people engaged in just about any form of activity, you are going to get the normal human life things. like bereavements, marriages and so on, and you are going to get the odd very nasty thing too.

All I can say is, I hope it's not him.

So true, Robert.

When we get on these sites, we know we are taking the risk of running up against the "odd very nasty thing." It's the price we pay for broader communication in the world. We wouldn't do it if the benefits were not worth the risk. I keep reminding myself to be careful. The more I see, the more careful I become.

[Brenda]

.

I personally don't feel his posts should be deleted. They are now a part of Ripperology history. Like it or not, this guy was an important contributor to our forums....I liked reading his posts, I almost always learned something. He never posted anything inappropriate. If the posts were deleted, information would be lost, and it just seems like a lame attempt to distance ourselves from someone that we were in fact associated with.

However, to ever welcome him back with open arms....I don't see that happening.

[Bob Hinton]

Problem

Has it been definitely established that these are the same people? If not I would suggest that this thread is removed.

I remember reading an article in a newspaper once where the police were looking for a 26 year old sailor called Robert Hinton for a murder. This chap was the same age, same occupation and even looked a bit like me, it was a bit strange to see that. Coincidences do happen.

[Robert]

Thanks for that, Chris. I couldn't link to the one I found, for it was on a password site.

Stephen, are we still OK for census images?

[Adam Went]

I don't know Andrew personally, but like everybody else, i've been pretty shocked to read about this - it was only a short time ago that I was reading with interest one of his excellent articles - "Montague John Druitt: Still Our Best Suspect" from Ripper Notes a few years back, in the process of doing research on Dr. Lionel Druitt.

I guess that all we can do for now is to cling to the hope that it's been some sort of horrific mistake.....

Cheers,
Adam.