The return of borrowed documents

[The Grave Maurice]

It's a nice idea, but I suspect that we'll never see any of the documents. The original borrowers would probably never admit that they had them (even by sending photocopies) and the relatives would be unlikely to recognize their value.

[Adam Went]

Phil:

It is a fantastic cause to try and promote, and there can be no doubt that somewhere, someone has some files or police records that nobody has seen before or even knows about - and that they are deliberately keeping them for themselves, or perhaps more likely, they have no interest in the JTR case at all and have just thrown them aside and never bothered with them.

There certainly couldn't be any harm in sending out a request for new information. We would just need to be prepared for....well, less than useful information coming forward as well.

Cheers,
Adam.

[DirectorDave]

While I would obviously like to see "borrowed" documents returned or indeed copies of "borrowed" documents returned.........I think we would have to make sure that what is being returned are copies of "borrowed" documents.

Faking JtR documents have been happening quite literally since day one......and saying "Oh we would be able to tell" is rather hopeful as we are still arguing over the authenticity of almost all the JtR related documents we have.

[The Good Michael]

I wonder about one thing...are there people who read these words that know where things are? If not in their own posession, then in the homes of others?

Phil,

I'm sure the responsible parties do read these threads and watch the documentaries and read the books. That's why I called for at minimum, some discreet copying of the documents. It could be photos or copies put into PDFs. I suggest that an appeal of this sort be made in all future books, magazines, and TV shows... even Rippercasts. Of course the originals would be best, but there might be elements of shame, guilt, and/or fear involved, so I suggested a compromised return of items.

Cheers,

Mike

[Phil Carter]

Hello Mike, Adam, all,

This subject is one which, as you may know, I am most passionate about. I have previously called for the return of such documents, papers and files.
Although many of us agree that we need to see these previously purloined documents etc returned, nothing seems to have been done.

What we are actually asking for is straight forward honesty.... or that people will realise that they have a moral concience, in the name of historical accuracy. All without being scared of legal consequences or any humiliation of any sort.

And of course, we must consider that a few people will have sold on the purloined papers to collectors, and the thought of loss of finance will also be a consideration.

The only consolation I suppose, is that anyone who initially took the documents from the files, have had around 25-35 years already to make money out of the idea, via sale or via publication of books, should that have been the original intention.

Mike, you ask HOW we can get these documents returned.

The best chance is that the message gets out to as many as possible. Therefore I propose that someone pulls in the national and international media, both via the newspapers and TV, in a sort of mass appeal. We have the opportunity here on this site, as well as through the jtr forums, to keep banging the drum. There is also the outlet of different Ripper magazines and crime periodicals, collectors magazines etc.

It would also be an idea to get an official amnesty concept launched at a higher level. I have no idea how the authorities, the police at the highest level and the politicians, amongst others, would react to this question.

Adam, you raise the point of fake/forged documents turning up. I have the feeling that those wanting to do this, will try to con everyone anyway. That is all part of the con, to fool as many as possible for as long as possible. Sadly, it is part of their game.

I wonder about one thing...are there people who read these words that know where things are? If not in their own posession, then in the homes of others?
If so, then we must ask, plead and persuade, often and adamantly, in order for people to do the decent thing.

Thank you Mike, for once again bringing up this subject. Well played that man.

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

I suggest a house-to-house search.

Sir Charles Warren

[Adam Went]

It's a good suggestion, Michael, but such a request for information would, if it yielded anything at all, probably lead to some people supplying fake/forged documents....we have been faced with this sort of thing enough times before in the case.

Also, there would be a great deal more documents which have been lost or destroyed (deliberately or accidentally - I believe some documents were lost during the bombing raids on London in World War II). Unfortunately the passing of 122 years has allowed for plenty of time for this to happen.

Still, be in no doubt that there will still be plenty of fresh information that will come forward from somewhere....

Cheers,
Adam.

[The Good Michael]

Hi,

I was reflecting upon the notion that many documents missing from JTR files had been taken as souvenirs by policemen, relatives, ripperologists, and others over the years. How can we get them back? The answer might be that we will never get them back. But if an appeal goes out to the possessors of such things to at least make copies of them and send them to Kew or elsewhere anonymously, that there shouldn't be any reasonable argument against their doing so.

Perhaps some of the perpetrators are deceased and the documents have passed into the hands of family members. I could then see it be embarrassing to turn in originals and having to say that mom or dad had them in their collection. But surely there should be no objection to making copies and sending them in. How to get the message out might be the real question.

Mike