What remained consistent through the C5?

[protohistorian]

Hi all,

I was thinking that with the various differences in locale, types of wounds inflicted, manner of acquisition, and disparity in ages, its clear that if one man did kill all 5, he was if nothing else, flexible. His particular needs or wants seem to change from victim to victim based on the Canonical association, unless of course all he really wanted to do was just cut people open.

But there were things that remained consistent throughout.

-Always after midnight.
-On a weekend, or with a Holiday attached to one.
-Before the 10th of the month, or at the end of it.
-80 percent done in the East End, under Metropolitan Jurisdiction.
-Always cuts the throats.
-Chooses only full or part time prostitutes.
-Is not hampered by lack of direct light
-Was rarely if ever seen with a victim prior to the kill.
-Was never seen leaving the crime scene.
-Performed multiple style injuries, stabs, cuts, extractions..in minutes
-Never visibly left traces of blood while leaving the scene, 3 times with organs and other parts.
-Was apparently not visibly threatening, at least enough to address his later victims trust to go somewhere dark with him.
-80 percent of his kills were North of Whitechapel High Street/Aldgate.


My intention is not to list all I can think of, I really would like to hear from anyone who sees continuity in other areas or aspects, things I wouldn't think of necessarily.

Any input is appreciated,
Best regards.

Change in wound morphology, risk averse behavior

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Michael!

When one adds the word "free" to your username, some people might think you are in a conspiracy to hide something about JtR from the rest of us!

All the best
Jukka

[sdreid]

Nope, don't know him.

I'm only one key over from Stab too.

I wonder where he was NO 30 - DE 09 -- The Thames?

Hi Stan,

Do you have an idea you might know him, perhaps some knowledge from familial sources you wont divulge?

See heres the thing.....If they did stop because the killer died or left the country, then the murders unattributed to him in early 1888, or the murders after November 9th that have Ripper signatures, were killed by other people. Since the ones before and after also occur within the East End confines, might one conclude that at the time of Jack The Rippers Fall of 1888 Run, that other people who had killed East End street whores, or would in the future, were also around.

I think thats really important when trying to continually re-configure the killers MO, based on the real differences in some of the killings.

My best as always Stan. Just realized...one more "A" and you're Satan.

[sdreid]

I wonder where he was NO 30 - DE 09 -- The Thames?

Hello all,

Sorry for the tone of my last post Sam. Just frustration, nothing personal certainly.

Glad you framed your inclusion using Stans format Victor, because I only pointed out she was killed before the 10th and on a Holiday.

Richard that stuff is interesting certainly, I just watched The Number 23 on video the other night. And since I'm suggesting a pattern that was dictated perhaps by the killers familial or work obligations, you can suggest Numerology perhaps factored in I would think. Fair is fair.

I wonder though if the "why" is really as melodramatic as something to do with Numerology? Im not against taking some caution when exploring the possibilities, and if the profile works with less evocative inspirations...like for example, were they murder/robberies when this guy or guys came to town? Were the organ extractions "business" motivated crimes?...Were the Fenian's who were plotting to assassinate Lord Balfour that Fall stirring the pot for the local gendarme? Did some Ireland bound ships have a schedule that involved travel mid-month? Do we know if any of our girls ever worked near the Docks?

I would say that the one key card in the house that you built is The Canon Richard, because if just one is someone else's victim, it puts the whole shebang in question.

I suppose I could say the same for mine.....but thats ok, because Im exploring this as an alternative to my belief that there was no "Canon". Its not that I post what I think is right all the time, I ask "what if" a lot too. In this case, I cant deny that all 5 are within the same month/day-holiday/weekend framework, if it is a legitimate pattern, then I have to consider that perhaps 1, or 2 men, did all 5. And Perhaps all 6.

Best regards all.

[sdreid]

Hi Victor,

Yes, thanks for that. Although I'm not too much of a Tabram guy, I'd have to say that could be an argument for her inclusion. Is it a good enough argument?

And you even figured out my code 100%.

[Sam Flynn]

I just find it kind of hard to believe that the best answers we can come up with for these type of questions is it was "nothing out of the ordinary".

Why shouldn't it be, though? Isn't the "ordinary" what usually happens?

That Fall was anything but ordinary.

That Fall was pretty ordinary. It's a handful of murders that weren't - it pays to keep things in perspective.

Just because we had some extraordinary murders doesn't alter the fact that "ordinary" life continued pretty much as normal. It's not as if the markets closed, the ships were prevented from docking, employees stopped paying their staff, landlords stopped asking for their rent, or the pubs shut early.

Im getting the sense that when it comes to questioning anything that has been an accepted theory, it will just be brushed away with.."oh, thats not significant."

I brush nothing away without giving it a great deal of thought first, Mike. Time was when I'd shoot ideas from the hip, but I guess I've mellowed over the years

[Tom_Wescott]

Although I think Sam's right to offer caution, I find Stan and Michael's stuff here very intriguing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[richardnunweek]

Hi Guys,
When it comes down to the numbers game yours trurly has the original.
THE THIRTY NINE THEORY.
We should remember many serial killers work to a pattern for a whole host of reasons, finding out the key can hepl in apprehending the killer/killers.
The Thirty nine theory consists of many aspects of the case not just the dates, however if we just take the dates we have the following.
Polly Nichols killed the 31st of the 8th month=39
Anne Chapman killed on the 8th september...31+8=39
Stride and Eddowes both killed on the 30th of the 9th month=39
Mary Kelly killed on the 9th day of the month the double event 30+9=39.
also not counting the day of the double event or the date of kellys demise, we have 39 days elapsing.
That is as good a theory as you will get involving actual dates, however if one wants to include Tabram into the series how about the 39 stab wounds recorded, not to mention aged 39.
And what about the letters sent that mentioned the number 39?
And for the suspicious amongst you what day did Barnett leave ?
Answer the 30th the same day of the month as the double event.
And what day was Mjk killed.?
Answer the 9th 30+9 =39
Also mjk was killed on the very same day of a month ie 9th, as Joe and Mary started living together 9th april.
I could go on , but you should get all these coincidences, or are they?
Regards Richard.

[Victor]

The three frames:

Last day of month, AU 31, through SE 09 (AU 31 & SE 08) - two murders
Last day of month, SE 30, through OC 09 (SE 30) - two murders
Last day of month, OC 31, through NO 09 (NO 09) - one murder

Don't forget that you could add Tabram to the start of that:-

Last day of month, JL 31, through AU 09 (AU 07) - one murder

OK, she's not canonical, but it does fit the pattern.

Hi Sam,

I dont think any of those ideas are flawed as to why we might see less activity during the 20 or more days, consecutive days, that he doesn't kill. You know its also possible he had phobias about mid-month dates. Maybe Or that he forgetfully locks his knife in a drawer the same 20 or so days each month, then find it at month end. Or that, as you suggest, he finds work that makes it absolutely impossible to have any nights off during that same 20 or more day period. We know that people hop picking stay out of town for the entire hop season, if Kate and John are any indication of "hoppers", I cant recall reading that any were coming and going each month though....leaving and returning the same days each month.

I just find it kind of hard to believe that the best answers we can come up with for these type of questions is it was "nothing out of the ordinary". Honestly Sam, you or I have no idea if it could be possible this was in fact the killers pattern.

That Fall was anything but ordinary. And someone or some people were killing whores, coincidentally during the same 10 day frame each month, August to November. Maybe its nothing, but the pattern exists.

Im getting the sense that when it comes to questioning anything that has been an accepted theory, it will just be brushed away with.."oh, thats not significant." Like anyone well read on Jack could possibly know at a glance if it was or wasn't potentially important. Seems to me that most the well read people on Jack know about as much who may have done these murders or why, as the novices do. Maybe theres a reason beyond lack of evidence for that. Maybe ideas are good things to explore, if we are looking for answers here, not just propping up a mythological tale.

This was not a business as usual at all in East London Sam. Were not examining common everyday occurances, or the life of an average East Ender when a legendary killer or killers aren't on the loose. If 3 women of 5 Canonicals have their uterus cut out of their bodies, and all are killed by one man, then it is probably an important organ, or action, to the killer. If 4 of the 5 had abdominal mutilations, and one shows that more time was available but no further cuts were made, then you have to question whether this is that same guy. If 4 of 5 are killed outdoors, and only one is killed indoors, its is not an automatic that the same guy just moved indoors. If items or biological material is found around a body in an unexpected position, it doesn't automatically mean they just landed that way.

The wave of the hand dismissal without even considering the propositions just ensures that the status quo will be maintained, and that there is little hope that any of these murders will ever be solved. People like me who like asking why will tire and drift off to study that is interactive...meaning that both sides are open to learning.

And in the case of the Canonicals, as far as history is concerned, thats just 5 individual unsolved murders categorized by investigative opinion, not Jack the Ripper's verified murder spree.

It seems to me that most serial killers are usually the type of people that kill on days that end with a "Y"...like any day of the week, so one that might only kill after midnight and before 6am, and only within the same 10 day period each month should be at the very least, interesting to explore.

Nite all.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Mike,

So why then would he have to wait from a kill before the 10th, to the 29th, 30th or 31st?

Forgive me for indulging in speculation...

Perhaps the last couple of weeks of one month and the first couple of weeks of the next brought the most vulnerable out onto the streets - debts to pay, rent to find, allowances from spouses or grants from charities and churches having run out etc. Perhaps the more employable were better placed to occupy the beds during these weeks, having more ready cash. Perhaps the more solvent were apt to stay out longer and in greater numbers, rendering the streets even less safe for Jack to work in, such potential witnesses amplifying still further the confounding effect of the increased police presence.

Perhaps there were seasonal factors that gave the more desperate some respite from the streets - for instance, we know that hundreds (if not thousands) of the East End poor would go hop-picking in late Summer and Autumn. Maybe the arrival of goods at the docks (or fish in the ports) during Jack's apparently "fallow" periods meant that there was more casual labour available at the markets. Such episodic influxes of trade may have signaled opportunities for casual prostitutes in the dock areas themselves, at a comparatively safe distance from "Ripper Central".

Who knows? It may be possible to find out, of course, but I don't have the info to hand. Suffice to say that, even if there is significance in these perceived gaps, it may have had many explanations beyond Jack's control, and not simply explicable by his occupation as such.




Edit - I should perhaps add that the above was what I was somewhat cryptically alluding to in my earlier post:

If there is a pattern there, might it not be linked... to what the rest of the world was doing?

[sdreid]

Hi Michael,

To me, the "missed date" looks like it should have been October 31 if anything.

Though, if you figure in the weekend business, it might be November 2 or so.

The three frames:

Last day of month, AU 31, through SE 09 (AU 31 & SE 08) - two murders
Last day of month, SE 30, through OC 09 (SE 30) - two murders
Last day of month, OC 31, through NO 09 (NO 09) - one murder

Thats good Stan, even more interesting to put it in that context. Perhaps what we should be wondering is where was the second murder that should have been in the Third Frame? Maybe Sarah Lewis's scare was a foiled attempt.

Thanks for exploring the idea, I appreciate that Stan.

Best regards.