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  • Phil Carter
    started a poll Most crucial points

    Most crucial points

    26
    Sir Robert Anderson
    0.00%
    0
    Authentication of "newly discovered" material
    3.85%
    1
    A serial killer/ more than one killer/various killers
    19.23%
    5
    A cover-up or not by one or more officials
    11.54%
    3
    Differences in case conclusions between authors
    3.85%
    1
    Medical knowledge or not
    3.85%
    1
    The missing files/the SD Files
    38.46%
    10
    The differing opinions of the police as to who Jack was
    7.69%
    2
    The letters supposedly from "Jack"
    0.00%
    0
    Your own choice of sticking point
    11.54%
    3
    What single point, if you could chose one, is the most difficult theme in Ripperology to sort out? Here, I ask for a specific point, not a generalisation (i.e. What Jacks identity was).. I have put a few examples on the poll, but by all means come with others.

    Thank you for your considerations.

    best wishes

    Phil

  • Phil Carter
    replied
    Helo Jukka,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I am NOT entirely sure about this, perhaps a medical expert can help, but I think that some attempt is usually made before burial. Especially because of any post mortem regulations, which I do not know about in the LVP. Like you, I admit to being very unsure here though.

    best wishes

    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • j.r-ahde
    replied
    Hello Phil!

    Well, if MJK's face was stitched up, the following question still remains:

    How accurate it is?!

    I quite honestly admit, that I am not an expert in this, but:

    1. How much had the facial muscles, tissues etc. swollen?!

    2. How much one can see the actual face between the scars?!

    Based on these questions, I find it possible, that the investigators found the reconstruction useless already at the time.

    All the best
    Jukka

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil Carter
    replied
    Hello Edward,

    Thank you for the reply.

    I agree entirely.
    That, in respect of “authentication” of "newly-discovered evidence" is problematic indeed. Because we don't know all the things that went missing, it opens up a treasure trove of possibilities for all to "suddenly find"... both originals and fakes.
    For example... a mortuary photograph of MJK, taken after the autopsy. I use this example because strangely, of all the victims, a mortuary photograph of MJK is is noticeable by it's absence.

    best wishes

    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • Edward
    replied
    Tom, Phil, smezenen,

    I agree with you that the lost or missing files is the biggest issue. Smezenen, I also agree that “authentication” of newly-discovered evidence is problematic. Imagine our angst if the GSG was actually photographed, yet became lost or missing over the years. We don't have a clue as to what is missing.

    Edward

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil Carter
    replied
    Hello all,

    Two weeks after the last update, according to this poll, at this moment in time, 23 votes have been cast.

    Still not a single vote for Sir Robert Anderson, the cause of a very large "two camp" situation on these boards in connection with a for and against his comments about Jack being taken seriously or not..yet here, not so important at all. Anderson's opinions are not, it seems, atm, the most important factor in sorting out the whole case.

    The letters, a few of which are regarded by some as being a vital clue to Jack's identity and personality, still have no votes either.
    Differences of opinion between authors as to Jack's identity causes no major problems with Ripperologists, it appears, with only 1 vote. This may or may not be connected to the Anderson comments.

    The missing files /SD files are deemed the greatest importance so far, with nearly double the amount of votes cast over the next most voted for, (the serial killer/more than one killer/various killers). 9 votes to 5. Over one third of those who have voted believe the missing files to be a key point.

    It will be interesting from time to time to see the progression of this poll.
    Many thanks for all those who have cast their vote, and for the opinions so far raised. I encourage all those who are yet to vote to do so, as it wil give us all a fair indication of what matters most in regard to your view of the biggest problem or sticking point in this case.

    Again, thank you all for voting and your written opinions.

    best wishes

    Phil
    Last edited by Phil Carter; 02-12-2010, 01:18 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil Carter
    replied
    Hello smezenen,

    Thank you for your reply.
    It is a sad reflection of the times I fear, that the handling of the papers and the files in the LVP, naturally, leave much to be desired, compared to today's standards..

    If one also combines the police at the time taking things out, and over the years just about every Tom, Dick and Harry pouring all over them, it is no wonder that their condition is as it is.
    That is why I have consistently asked, publically, for ALL the papers to be returned to the files, anonymously, before they get completely destroyed and are of no historical value to anyone.

    There are people out there that do read these forums, that either know of the whereabouts of the missing papers, or have them tucked away themselves. Unfortunately, there seems to be a total disregard to the word honesty for some. Keeping them serves no purpose any more... except to sell them "underground", because they can never come on the "legal market" to be sold. And those who have bought them from others, have spent much money for them, and are unwilling to hand them in without a return on their outlay, I guess.
    That only leaves concience.
    I am convinced that part of the reason these files were taken in the first place, is NOT because the name of JTR is in there, but would actually explain all the holes in the case, and would help us find the reason for the whole thing.
    What I call the revealing of The mystery of the myth.

    I can only keep calling out and hope that someone hears.

    best wishes

    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • j.r-ahde
    replied
    Hello smezenen!

    This case took place so long time ago, that one cannot avoid the missing files!

    All the best
    Jukka

    Leave a comment:


  • smezenen
    replied
    Originally posted by Phil Carter View Post
    Hello smezenen,

    Logical and rational point you make. The SD files however, at Kew, are those that we must suppose to be genuine whatever, because they have never been seen, as far as we know, by any living researcher. With regards to the missing files, purloined, then all those files are stamped, officially I believe. I do not know, however, when this stamping occured, and perhaps someone else could help with this point. I presume that it was done a long time before anyone ever saw the files i the 1970's. (With exception to Douglas Browne, who had access to the files in or around 1956)

    best wishes

    Phil
    Phil,
    Thanks for your post. I haven’t been privileged enough to see any of the actual files only what is available online so I wasn’t sure how the police departments back then marked evidence but If the files are stamped then yes I would agree that authentication is not an issue.
    Can anyone comment on the methods used in LVP London to mark evidence? Was it marked immediately or after the inquest was completed.
    In the department I currently work in we receive the evidence in a bags or envelopes that have been sealed at the crime scene. The policy is to not mark the evidence but rather the bag or envelope; it has to do with preserving microscopic evidence and not altering the material when possible. I haven’t been in the business long so I don’t know the procedures used by other departments farther up the chain, but I do believe the evidence itself is given a more permanent mark after it has been fully processed and is going to either long term storage (cold cases) or to court as trial evidence.
    Last edited by smezenen; 02-01-2010, 02:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • harry
    replied
    I believe a crucial reason why the case was unsolved,was the reluctance of witnesses to come forward.BS,Pipeman,for example.I am sure the innocent party in Berner street could have given valuable information.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil Carter
    replied
    Hello smezenen,

    Logical and rational point you make. The SD files however, at Kew, are those that we must suppose to be genuine whatever, because they have never been seen, as far as we know, by any living researcher. With regards to the missing files, purloined, then all those files are stamped, officially I believe. I do not know, however, when this stamping occured, and perhaps someone else could help with this point. I presume that it was done a long time before anyone ever saw the files i the 1970's. (With exception to Douglas Browne, who had access to the files in or around 1956)

    best wishes

    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • smezenen
    replied
    I wanted to agree with all those who voted for the missing files. I think that if they are ever recovered we will put to bed alot of our questions and debates. My isssue with voting them the most crucial is that if they where ever recovered they would then need to be authenticated which is why I voted "Authentication of "newly discovered" material", both catagories would go hand in hand IMHO anything "newly discovered" would most likely be from the missing files and any recovered files would have to be authenticated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil Carter
    replied
    Hello all,

    Just to give an intermediate rapport of things, it seems some things interesting are occuring with the voting in this poll, which is exactly what I had hoped for.

    So far, according to this poll, at this moment in time, 18 votes have been cast.
    NONE for Sir Robert Anderson, who's mere mention on other threads shows a very large "two camp" situation, a for and against his comments about Jack being taken seriously or not..yet here, not so important at all. That tells us that Anderson's opinions are not, atm, the most important factor in sorting out the whole case.
    The letters, a few of which are regarded by some as being a vital clue to Jack's identity and personality, are again not deemed important enough for the case.
    Likewise, differences of opinion between authors as to Jack's identity causes no major problems with Ripperologists.

    Overwhelmingly, the missing files /SD files are deemed the greatest importance so far, with double the amount of votes cast over the next most voted for, (the serial killer/more than one killer/various killers).

    It will be interesting to see the progression of this poll.
    Many thanks for all those who have cast their vote, and for the opinions so far raised.

    best wishes

    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil Carter
    replied
    Hello Tom,

    Yup, I'm with you on this one.

    best wishes

    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom_Wescott
    replied
    I chose the missing files. If we had all of those, most of the other 'sticking points' would cease to stick.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

    Leave a comment:

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