There is no Jack the ripper

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Simon,

Since I rarely ever see you on the threads that Michael lives on, and from your comments above, it's clear you're unaware of his behavior above and beyond the simple 'asking of questions'. Pretty much no one likes the guy because of his behavior, although he thinks it's because of his rather fantastical notions. Yet, you're a good example of a research with fantastical notions on the case who nevertheless manages to get along with others and has even earned the respect of most researchers. A rare achievement for a crackpot.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Goodness me, Ally's caterwauling is a hard act to follow. My ears are still ringing.

For no good reason Michael appears to have become something of a lightning rod for a lot of spite and bile, mainly from people who believe that single-handedly he is stifling meaningful debate. Such a notion would be screamingly funny if it wasn't so pathetic, for all he wants to know is why, after 121 years, there is not one jot of evidence to support the belief that a serial killer was at large in 1888 Whitechapel, let alone that it was anyone named by the police.

It's a fair question, but instead of receiving an answer he got chased out of Dodge by the lamp-dimmers.

Come on, people, we're in the second decade of the 21st Century. Let's ditch all the hoary old myths. Let's stop finding excuses for all the lies and illogicalities we've been asked to swallow and wise up to the fact that we've been conned for whatever nefarious reason. Cover-ups need not be elaborate. All you need is a few well-placed people to manage the flow of information, and there is plenty of evidence for that in the WM and its aftermath. Just consider how three policemen writing a total of nineteen years apart completely twisted history's understanding of what was really going on in 1888/89 and led everyone on the biggest wild goose chase of all time.

Jack the Ripper is yesterday's cold mashed potatoes. Let's find the truth, shame the devil and make this an age of enlightenment.

Regards,

Simon

[Ally]

Contradictory opinions dont sit well with people who like to imagine that they have the "credible" part of the study to themselves,

You mean like you constantly imagine you do? That's where the hypocrite shines. There are plenty of people with contradictory opinions who get along quite well on the boards. There are even people who aren't sure whether Stride was a Ripper victim and they can coexist quite harmoniously with the vast majority of posters. The problem that people like you have is that your colossal ego and sense of entitlement causes you to believe erroneously that just because you believe it's true, it's the same thing as true. Or that because you don't believe the standard, your belief is somehow of more worth than those that accept the traditional. Different isn't better. Different isn't necessarily right. It's just different and you are the only one who refuses to accept the fact that there is absolutely NOTHING that proves you right and therefore your opinion is of no greater value than anyone elses.

its a pity many of you would rather traipse around in the unimportant minutia and pat yourselves whenever an address or name can be verified,

Yes you know establishing facts has never once been helpful in the course of investigation. Wild speculation and irrational theorizing wins the day every time.

Since an Administrator suggests that Ive contributed nothing to question the belief in Flat Earther style doctrines, I guess that plus being handed my hat is enough for me.

If an administrator has also suggested that you've contributed nothing I guess it's a consensus. However, I think you are confused as to just who the flat earther in this scenario is.

Thanks to you and Stephen for the resources and the platform.....and of course for so patiently enduring me.

Thank Stephen not me. If I had a say in who was endured, the boards would have a lot less members.

You can delete the profile with my full approval Ally....wouldnt want to spoil anyone elses good time in the future.

And while that's sweet, pompous, but sweet, I don't need your approval. The approval needed would be Stephen's. His approval or his password and his lack of attention for 15 minutes, but either way, once again, not up to me.

I do have some friends that have my email...

Probably the biggest surprise of all...

If that's your opinion, why not pack your bags and leave. You haven't contributed diddly squat to the case or to original thought and then you complain about the lack of quality?

What a bare-faced hypocritical piece of crap. If you don't like it here and you don't like the waters, then what precisely are you doing here?

If you don't like it here, shove off. But quit slamming the entire community just because your ideas are stupid and every rational person thinks they are stupid. Maybe it's time to take a look at yourself and realize the reason you consider the water to be stagnant is you have your head so far up your ass you can't see clear.

So be it then.

Contradictory opinions dont sit well with people who like to imagine that they have the "credible" part of the study to themselves, its a pity many of you would rather traipse around in the unimportant minutia and pat yourselves whenever an address or name can be verified, instead of confronting what is clearly a completely unfounded premise to begin with and opinions that have no place in a serious investigation into historical, as yet unconnected and still counting, .... murders

Its not like I NEED to hear this crap all the time Ally...its that I naively believed it was for study not myth propagation. And you can be sure that any information I discover if I choose to make it public will offered as a direct refutation of the existing fallacies.. and sources.

Since an Administrator suggests that Ive contributed nothing to question the belief in Flat Earther style doctrines, I guess that plus being handed my hat is enough for me. Thanks to you and Stephen for the resources and the platform.....and of course for so patiently enduring me. You can delete the profile with my full approval Ally....wouldnt want to spoil anyone elses good time in the future.

I do have some friends that have my email...and they would be welcome as continued friends outside this venue.

Best of Luck to you all, thanks for all the discussions over the years.....Cheery bye

[DVV]

Hi Hunter,

Ditto.
Phil is a joy to read.

Amitiés,
David

[Hunter]

...As my signature line says... there is never enough time. We should use it wisely, and well. Soon, for us all, at one time or another, it runs out.

best wishes, to all

Phil

Phil,

I haven't been a member of these boards very long and I don't even know you. I just wanted to tell you - damn well said.

Best Wishes,
Hunter

[Ally]

I just hope in the meantime that we dont get some kind of STD as a result of our swim in the existing Ripper pool Lynn. ...cause its been stagnant water for sometime now.

My best regards mate.

If that's your opinion, why not pack your bags and leave. You haven't contributed diddly squat to the case or to original thought and then you complain about the lack of quality?

What a bare-faced hypocritical piece of crap. If you don't like it here and you don't like the waters, then what precisely are you doing here?

If you don't like it here, shove off. But quit slamming the entire community just because your ideas are stupid and every rational person thinks they are stupid. Maybe it's time to take a look at yourself and realize the reason you consider the water to be stagnant is you have your head so far up your ass you can't see clear.

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil,

I don't think so. There has not been an extended discussion on Stride of any value in three years because of Michael. And there won't be again until he's gone. The last couple of days all he has done is hurl insults, insulting the Ripper community individually and as a whole. With such a disdain for us and the subject matter, I can't understand why he hangs around. I even tried to extend the olive branch and compliment his very limited virtues, and all he did is spit in my eye. He's gone from strange to stranger to batshit crazy. Enough's enough.

It's time for Michael to actually contribute to the subject or stop bitching. Either one is fine with me.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hello all,

As all of you may have realised by now, when speaking personally, I try at every level to accept people for their views. I disagree with many, and agree with some. Some probably regard me as some sort of a joke, others, if that is their want, perhaps respect me. That is an individual choice and right.

There are instances however, where the forum for discussion becomes a personality thing. I do not hold my hands up here and say "not guilty" either, for we are all affected to a certain degree by the comments aimed directly, or indirectly at us. Some of us are more patient with these commentators than others. Some, by dint of their wording, are more easily noticed than others. Some are more offensive, others, less so. I do not agree with some of the methods used on these forums, yet have to concede that one cannot expect everyone to be perfectly respectful, and equally egoistic/non-egoistic than the next person.

JTR is littered with varying ego. The opinionated, the observant, the knowledgeable, the factual. Those who are bent on spoiling, those who are bent on provoking or baiting. Those who manage to confine their opinions of others to personal meetings with the said person/persons, and those who use the medium we use herewith to vent their disagreement vehemently.

Again, speaking personally, I find it sad sometimes to see the level of human interaction lowered by these personal spats, whether they are personality based, researched based, historically based or based on personal opinion within the sphere of Ripperology.

Accusations and counter accusations, WHOEVER they come from, do the subject of Ripperology LITTLE good. We ALL know the effect of how far things can go, and what the cause is. The classic example, has been the Diary. Even today it is an extremely touchy subject. I, for one, steer clear if at all possible.

There is, I believe, a reason for this.

Stalemate.

Ripperology is in a valley of inactivity at the moment. The coming year, to my knowledge, will bring more things to light from various quarters. Perhaps one of these things will contribute towards an awakening of thoughtful discussion without too much personal predjudice.
The problem with the subject of Jack the Ripper, is that FACTS are missing. In spades. That will lead to speculation. Speculation to ideas, ideas to theories, thoeries to disagreement, debunking and trashing. Combine that with the "individual personality" factor, and we have a potential for all out personal inter-camp verbal war.

The stalemate also leads to frustration. Some deserved, some not.

We all try, in our own way, shape or form to contribute. The little I contribute, if at all, may have some merit for some. Others may believe I am totally misguided in my views. But however agrieved or affected I may be by some people's rudeness and ignorance, I have to, for the sake of the BEST for this community, remain as patient as possible. I, human like I am, fail occasionally too.

The utmost majority of authors, whether professional, semi-professional or occasional amateur, who have other jobs, each day, families and personal situations to attend to, allhave one thing in common. A deep and abiding interest in Jack the Ripper.
The same can be said for groups of researchers, historians and the hobby orientated amateurs. Be they young, old or, like me, somewhere in the middle range.

Throughout the last 121 years, various people have stretched the truth, provoked with outlandish lies, been money orientated, greedy, egoistic, and even malicious. Some qualify for more than one of the above catagories. They will always get the hackles raised of others.

It is with this in mind, that 3 months ago, I asked for a truce of sorts. I sensed a growing resentment rising again, at a period of relative inactivity.
I asked for the return of purloined files, I asked for sharing and help to be more prominent. I asked for the establishment of a little more trust between us. I openly encouraged those who knew of such instances, to persaude to a better moral.
Sadly, I have seen no old files and documents anonymously returned to the appropriate government or national departments.
The reason I did this, was primarily, that I have a belief in the goodness within human nature. Not just the acceptance of the inevitable negative. I had noticed I myself had become more and more cynical.
I refuse to buckle to this feeling. I believe in optimism. I believe in minor miracles. I believe we can get something DONE in this case.

Internal personal swiping at personalities, harms this. One step forward, nine back. The Worldwide Community is watching. One or two clicks on a piece of plastic and we are exposed to the world. And for me, thats means THE FUTURE GENERATION. They will judge us not only by our achievements, but by our failings. They will judge us by our attitudes, as we do the people who were in charge of the original investigation and case, the immediate media commentators, the witnesses, the suspected and the reactions of the common -all-garden Mr and Mrs Localperson.

Whilst I can totally understand that one person is totallly fed up with another, whilst I myself sit in utter disbelief at some individual attitude and rudeness, I will endeavour to rise above it, however tempting. I fail occasionally, and wallow not in the feeling I am left with myself.

People have become friends through this subject. They still disagree. They still discuss, and mostly, they still respect each other. They form lifelong associations and friendships.

Perhaps this sounds like a utopian idealism, perhaps it is naive. Perhaps it is simplistic. If so, I willingly stand gulity as charged. I believe however, that it is better than all the other, negative alternatives.

As my signature line says... there is never enough time. We should use it wisely, and well. Soon, for us all, at one time or another, it runs out.


Supe....... very wise words indeed.

best wishes, to all

Phil

[Supe]

I would definitely suggest a reading (or re-reading) of Martin Gardner's Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science. It is quite instructive about those cranks who sought to refute Einstein and others who did the research, resolved the equations and presented theories that could be successfully tested. The cranks, on the other hand, were mainly motivated by animosity to those who have actually achieved success and by an overwhelming belief that those who have succeeded are wrong and only they possess the truth, a truth, moreover, that is mocked and suppressed by the establishment.

Don.

[Sam Flynn]

Ive said that ... Bond had no opinion worth noting on women he didnt examine and Phillips certainly did... and that by the evidence alone, these murders are not connected to each other in legal, criminal terms.

I don't think that quite adds up, Mike. If it did, then the police would have to exclude selected victims from any serial-killer's charge-sheet whenever different doctors performed the autopsies.

Hi Phil,

I don't think so. There has not been an extended discussion on Stride of any value in three years because of Michael.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I hate to accept all the credit for less consideration of some of the less tenable theories that existed before I started posting, because that credit deserves to be shared with all the members who do discuss posts and ideas instead of assailing the sources.

I would venture that even the supreme beings of Ripperology, whomever you worship most solemnly, would have to honestly admit that the legal case for an actual Jack the Ripper, a serial killer of a Canonical Group of 5, is little more than a concept at the moment. Well.....for the last 121 years actually....but, I digress.

Thats all one need accept to allow fresh air in occasionally.

Ive said that the MM is proof of nothing and a very confused document, that Bond had no opinion worth noting on women he didnt examine, and Phillips certainly did, and that by the evidence alone, these murders are not connected to each other in legal, criminal terms. In fact one of the "Canon" should be summarily excused due to the lack of any persuasive evidence.

I dont see that as hellraising myself, but Im fine with it if you do.

Best regards

[Tom_Wescott]

And you dear Tom have contributed what?

I've corrected some of your published errors, for starters. Beyond that, you'll have to ask someone else since you don't follow the field yourself.

A rehashed and terrible version and vision of your Le Grand?

No, that's coming this year.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Phil,

I don't think so. There has not been an extended discussion on Stride of any value in three years because of Michael. And there won't be again until he's gone. The last couple of days all he has done is hurl insults, insulting the Ripper community individually and as a whole. With such a disdain for us and the subject matter, I can't understand why he hangs around. I even tried to extend the olive branch and compliment his very limited virtues, and all he did is spit in my eye. He's gone from strange to stranger to batshit crazy. Enough's enough.

It's time for Michael to actually contribute to the subject or stop bitching. Either one is fine with me.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Cap'n Jack]

And you dear Tom have contributed what?
A rehashed and terrible version and vision of your Le Grand?
My advice, drink whisky, and pop a black grape in there, easier to swallow.
Gardens.

[Phil Carter]

I've watched many big mouths come through these boards over the years, bitching about the 'stagnant waters' of Ripperology, only because their small minds can't perceive the work being done. If it's not of their invention, it's worth nothing. Inevitably, these people move on, having never contributed a damn thing of value to the subject. You've been on the boards what, three years now? Time to put up or shut up.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom,
It has taken 121 years to get nowhere. A bit more won't hurt...

Patience is a virtue.

:-)

best wishes

Phil