Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Batty Street Lodger

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • SuspectZero
    replied
    Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

    But the 1832 Anatomy Act was brought in to stop the illegal trade in body parts for medical research. It allowed bona fide medical personnel to be able to go to mortuaries and legally obtain body parts for research. So it wekened the supply and demand aspect previously seen with Burke and Hare.

    www.trevormarriott.co.uk
    Absolutely correct, Trevor. However it continued to be a back door supply chain. If specific parts weren't available, they could be more valuable procuring them through the back door.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trevor Marriott
    replied
    Originally posted by SuspectZero View Post

    I understand why you think that, and I respect your opinion, but consider that if you are looking at specific details of the mutilations as comparative, then you are right, there is less resemblance. However, if you pull up for a moment and consider that maybe the reason they were murdered was not about the mutilations/methodology, but really about motive, you might consider it from a different perspective? From that standpoint, they are similar, if the goal was to steal body parts. The perpetrator merely changed opportunity from the street to someplace more private. Take a look at all the women that just disappeared off the streets at that time. Body parts were a known and profitable business. A lot of people looked the other way.
    But the 1832 Anatomy Act was brought in to stop the illegal trade in body parts for medical research. It allowed bona fide medical personnel to be able to go to mortuaries and legally obtain body parts for research. So it wekened the supply and demand aspect previously seen with Burke and Hare.

    www.trevormarriott.co.uk

    Leave a comment:


  • Joshua Rogan
    replied
    It must have been a very profitable business indeed, if the killer could afford to take just one or two body parts from each corpse and then throw the rest away.

    Leave a comment:


  • SuspectZero
    replied
    Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

    I disagree the mutilations by the Ripper seems very different to the dismemberment and dumping of body parts by the Torso Killer.
    I understand why you think that, and I respect your opinion, but consider that if you are looking at specific details of the mutilations as comparative, then you are right, there is less resemblance. However, if you pull up for a moment and consider that maybe the reason they were murdered was not about the mutilations/methodology, but really about motive, you might consider it from a different perspective? From that standpoint, they are similar, if the goal was to steal body parts. The perpetrator merely changed opportunity from the street to someplace more private. Take a look at all the women that just disappeared off the streets at that time. Body parts were a known and profitable business. A lot of people looked the other way.
    Last edited by SuspectZero; 08-17-2019, 06:28 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Wheat
    replied
    Originally posted by SuspectZero View Post

    I'm pretty well convinced that the committer of the Torso crimes and the Ripper murders were one of the same. If you stop looking at the individual cases but look at them for a common characteristics, the torso crimes and the Ripper murders have a consistency to them. How the crimes were committed could well have changed due to how difficult it was becoming to pull them off, due to the increasing police presence.
    I disagree the mutilations by the Ripper seems very different to the dismemberment and dumping of body parts by the Torso Killer.

    Leave a comment:


  • SuspectZero
    replied
    Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
    The Batty Street Lodger has for me always seemed a much better fit for The Torso Killer rather than the Ripper.
    I'm pretty well convinced that the committer of the Torso crimes and the Ripper murders were one of the same. If you stop looking at the individual cases but look at them for a common characteristics, the torso crimes and the Ripper murders have a consistency to them. How the crimes were committed could well have changed due to how difficult it was becoming to pull them off, due to the increasing police presence.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Wheat
    replied
    The Batty Street Lodger has for me always seemed a much better fit for The Torso Killer rather than the Ripper.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joshua Rogan
    replied
    On a discussion of Hampshire Court (running between Berner St and Batty St), rjpalmer said;
    "I've been interested in this 'passage' as well, but in the census sheets it is seemingly referred to as (1881) Murden's Row, or (1891) Murden Place."

    I think this is because there are no actual houses in Hampshire Court. Murden's Place is a tiny court off it's north side centre (half way between the two streets), containing one or two addresses, as can hopefully be seen on this map;

    Click image for larger version

Name:	_20190817_160253.JPG
Views:	134
Size:	132.0 KB
ID:	719139

    Leave a comment:


  • SuspectZero
    replied
    I’’’’ve done extensive research on this man. I believe I know who he was and I also believe he was responsible for subsequent killings all the way through 1891, but not certain that he performed all of the murders himself.
    Last edited by SuspectZero; 08-17-2019, 01:42 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael W Richards
    replied
    Thought Id resuscitate this thread...some really interesting points on the Lodger story. I think this man may have been responsible for Liz Strides murder, not Kates, and I don't see a Tumblety character here. Maybe just an out of area Jew who attended the meeting Saturday night.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cap'n Jack
    replied
    Didn't the Cutbush & Flood clan own 35 Plumber's Row?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff Leahy
    replied
    Hello Roy

    Thanks for that..i'm currently checking out the Batty Street connection..so interesting back reading..

    Might I be as bold to recommend "Rob House' post on current 'Aron or Not' thread number 24. Where he raises this question also.

    Yours Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • Roy Corduroy
    replied
    I made a mistake above. Strike Kings-Ann Road. I meant to say Gray's Inn-Road again.

    Supe, thanks for the tip.

    In the meantime, there's an echo here on the message boards. I note recent discussion of the press reports, as to the possibility of directed surveillance of an individual. And it's not Doctor T. A radius of several hundred yards from the Berner St. tragedy would, of course, take in many places. Including the business of Lewis Lis, general dealer, where he lived with his wife, and dress-making daughter, Mandel. 35 Plumber's Row.

    Roy

    Leave a comment:


  • Supe
    replied
    Roy,

    I would strongly suggest you check out Gavin Bromley's article "Is There an Echo in Here" in Ripperologist 83 (Sept. 2007). Like all of Gavin's work it is an enlightening and detailed examination of the whole Batty Street lodger story.
    Back issues of the magazine are available by writing to: contact@ripperologist.info

    Don.

    Leave a comment:


  • Roy Corduroy
    replied
    Hi again,

    Please allow me to refine and clarify my observations.

    The Batty St story could have been untrue. There was no bloody clothing from there in possession of the police. And no cover stories were planted. The Gray’s Inn-Road could have simply been a separate story that had no bearing on the murders under investigation. And the later, much changed version of the Batty St. story could have been more like the truth, just laundry.

    Or the Batty St story could be true.

    If a false cover story was planted by the police, the Kings-Ann Road one, and/or the later version , there are two scenarios as to why this this was done:

    (1) The Batty St. story is not true, but the police felt the need to plant a cover story because, after all, this was Batty St. That conjures up the Lipski murder. And their witness from Berner St., Schwartz reported the use of that word at the crime scene. This is most distressing, because it could all be high inflammatory. So they try to squelch it like putting out a fire.

    (2) The Batty St story is true. The police do have bloody clothing in their possession and the account from the woman to go with it. Surveillance is conducted. They try to keep a lid on this important information, playing their cards close to the vest. They plant a false story. And in this secnario, the Lipski factor is not mutually exclusive as a reason to plant a story.

    There is a great deal more, of course, to the entire discussion than just this, but it is one starting point for revisiting it again.

    As always, your help is appreciated.
    Roy

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X