Israel Schwartz -- Witness or . . .

[Fisherman]

Diana writes:

"He tells us that Liz was thrown down in the footpath, but later her body is found inside the fence. His description of broad shoulders does not match the descriptions given by anyone else of men seen with Liz near the time of the murder"

Diana, there is no reason to believe that Stride could not have gotten up after she was thrown down, is there? My contention is that she did, and that she entered the yard afterwards.
As for the description of BS man, have a look at the man Marshall describes seeing with Stride earlier that evening - it tallies incredibly well, and my guess is that these two sightings were sightings of the very same man.

The best,
Fisherman

[richardnunweek]

Hello Diana,
I see Israel as another paronoid witness like George Hutchinson, both saw actual events, the former running for it, proberly out of attempting to avoid a fracass, and who knows may well have invented pipe man, to give him some manhood for doing a runner.
In the case of Gh, if the majority of Casebook are right , then he was so scared of having been seen by residents in the immediate area, that he invented Astracan for giving him a reason to be right near the crime scene.
I am not saying either man was guilty of any crime, just that circumstances happened , that warrented their actions.
Regards Richard.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Diana,

But what if Schwartz's story was true?

Doctor Blackwell testified that Stride "would have bled to death comparatively slowly on account of vessels on one side only of the neck being cut and the artery not completely severed."

It therefore makes sense that Stride was attacked at 12.45, fifteen minutes before being found dead by Louis Diemschitz.

The trouble is, the timing of Israel Schwartz's story did rather upset the hoary old myth that Jack was disturbed by Diemschitz and so, seized by an unsatisfied bloodlust, went off in search of another victim.

Maybe that's why his story was discredited and he didn't appear at the inquest.

Regards,

Simon

[diana]

What if we decide that Israel Schwartz's story is made up out of whole cloth?

What does his story do for him? It explains why he was seen running from the crime scene very close to the time of the murder.

Are there inconsistencies? Yes. He tells us that Liz was thrown down in the footpath, but later her body is found inside the fence. His description of broad shoulders does not match the descriptions given by anyone else of men seen with Liz near the time of the murder.

Does it reveal knowledge that JtR would have? Yes. The bruises on Liz's shoulders are consistent with Schwartz's description of how she was pushed down. Perhaps he accidently included an element of truth?

Given the direction he was running, could he have logically gotten to Mitre Square in a short time? Yes.