Ed Glinert's east end book big revelation?

[Krinoid]

Krinoid,

Glinert's book was first published in '05 and it received generally approving comments both here and in some of the journals. Like m_w_r, I always read Glinert's solution as a joke about overly complicated JtR theories. As far as I know, everyone read it that way except, apparently, you.

Another one....

[Krinoid]

the earlier post

the earlier mentioin I alluded to since people don't read the whole thread

Hi Krinoid,

I'll bite. I think it's pretty obvious that the understated concluding sentence to the final paragraph in the chapter is a pull-back-and-reveal in which Glinert shows his "solution" to be, in fact, a satirical jab at some of Ripperology's most silly conspiracy theories. You'll note that the distances which Glinert states divide the Ripper sites aren't reliable, and that the six-pointed star, if it had existed, ought to have been a regular shape, with all sides the same length. Instead, Glinert builds irregularity into his satirical scheme, parodying the arguments of those who believe that drawing lines between the sites actually form different shapes (Satanic symbols, arrows pointing at the House of Commons, etc). There's no rigour in Glinert's "solution", but deliberately so - it's meant to be understood to be a joke, not the long-awaited answer. I'm afraid that you've missed some of these subtleties in your reading.
Regards,

Mark

[Krinoid]

Krinoid,

There is nothing about cubits in the Kitab Al-Azif. As that is the definitive work on anything demonic and inexplicable, and as Abdul Al-Hazred did experience all possible things Mythos, I think your argument is dead.

Sure, Von Junzt had a few good ideas, but he didn't mention it either.

Yours,

Mike

Maybe no one had not figured it out yet, I mean how long did it take to come out now about Wellclose square to be added to the theory?
Abdul Alhazred is a fictional character created by American horror writer H. P. Lovecraft. He is the so-called "Mad Arab" credited with authoring the imaginary book Kitab al-Azif (the Necronomicon), and as such an integral part of Cthulhu Mythos lore
Mark

[Krinoid]

Hello Krinoid,



.

Personally I try to keep an open mind about any area of Ripper research but in this case, I can't help but thinking that it is a red herring which leads to copious amounts of uncheckable facts and baseless allegations.

Acting high and mighty? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, more like.

Regards,

Boris

I would read the whole thread before you accuse me of being high and mighty and see what others were accusing me of missing Glinert's supposed sarcasm and my stupidity. The joke's on you and others here who laughed without checking...

[Krinoid]

[QUOTE=The Good Michael;145450]Krinoid,

There is nothing about cubits in the Kitab Al-Azif. As that is the definitive work on anything demonic and inexplicable, and as Abdul Al-Hazred did experience all possible things Mythos, I think your argument is dead.

I am not sure why that book is relevant or how that shuts the argument down but whatever, as long as JTR knew how Wren planned post fire London he could use that knowledge to his advantage. I don't think he went to the library and read up on everything available. And he seemed to be harnessing Jewish Old testament knowledge and making comments about Juwes as well. There is some link somewhere. Jacob the ripper?
I don't think enough emphasis has been placed on the topograpy and landscape of the East end in relation to the ripper. Or research into Wellclose/swedenborg square.Glinert was doing this and got dismissed without anything being checked (which is why I said the high and mighty comment), and I was told it was a joke that I missed which obviously it was not as I knew.
As for the triangle theory, Glinert did say it could be a conicidence and it could be, but the possibilty of getting 2 triangles is highly unlikley next to each other probability wise in general by statitistics.

[JSchmidt]

Krinoid,

There is nothing about cubits in the Kitab Al-Azif. As that is the definitive work on anything demonic and inexplicable, and as Abdul Al-Hazred did experience all possible things Mythos, I think your argument is dead.

Sure, Von Junzt had a few good ideas, but he didn't mention it either.

Yours,

Mike

And it isn't in the dinner recommendations of the Comte d'Erlette either.

[bolo]

Hello Krinoid,

He was not joking, just everyone too lazy to investigate,and acting high and mighty.

well, this avenue of research has been pursued for years but the results are not really convincing in my opinion. Apart from the star of David, we had pentagrams, arrows and the vesica piscis (ancient religious symbol), and several researchers/authors postulated theories on their significance to occult lore or secret societies, with mixed succcess I might add.

Personally I try to keep an open mind about any area of Ripper research but in this case, I can't help but thinking that it is a red herring which leads to copious amounts of uncheckable facts and baseless allegations.

Acting high and mighty? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, more like.

Regards,

Boris

[The Good Michael]

Krinoid,

There is nothing about cubits in the Kitab Al-Azif. As that is the definitive work on anything demonic and inexplicable, and as Abdul Al-Hazred did experience all possible things Mythos, I think your argument is dead.

Sure, Von Junzt had a few good ideas, but he didn't mention it either.

Yours,

Mike

[m_w_r]

Copyright holder???
Taking Glinert more serious now are we???
I think he owns the idea. And as for that other "site"you mention, they seem even less informed or interested, it was 2 triangles, and it is a twisted image of the star. He was not joking, just everyone too lazy to investigate,and acting high and mighty.

Hi Krinoid,

I'm not taking the idea more seriously, but since Colin specified in his post that he considered himself the copyright holder of the overlay, I thought I'd bring this to your attention to save any embarrassing legal issues.

Logic dictates that if you join six things together in serial sets of three, you'll end up with two triangles. You'll notice that Colin has listed the dimensions of these triangles, and that neither of them is equilateral, which is another way of saying that Glinert's cubit-lengths aren't reliable. And your ability to see a "twisted image" of the star depends mainly, in my opinion, on [I]confirmation bias[/]. When I look at it, I end up wishing that, if there had been any geometric intentionality in the Whitechapel Murders, whoever was responsible had been a bit more adept with the compasses and straight-edge when they sat down to plan it out. Two congruent equilateral triangles, the second overlying the first in a regular way, would have been much more impressive, and much more in line with the ascribed purpose, than a big scalene one and a little scalene one, the second of which juts out from its partner on the west, but doesn't on the east.

So I'm not convinced, because, in my opinion, there's very little here to be convinced of. But I don't think we're ever going to agree on this point, so I'm backing out of this thread at this juncture.

Regards,

Mark

[Krinoid]

Glinert was right

Hi Krinoid,

It may interest you to know that someone has drawn the lines between the murder sites, etc, to which you have referred in this thread. The image can be seen in "the other place", by following this link:

click here

The creator and copyright holder of the overlay image, Colin Roberts, does not post on this site at the moment.

I hope you find this interesting.

Regards,

Mark

Copyright holder???
Taking Glinert more serious now are we???
I think he owns the idea. And as for that other "site"you mention, they seem even less informed or interested, it was 2 triangles, and it is a twisted image of the star. He was not joking, just everyone too lazy to investigate,and acting high and mighty.

[joelhall]

No but this does:

Taken together these three places form a triangle over the East End.
The other murder sites - Hanbury Street (Mary Anne Chapman), Berner Street (Liz Stride) and Mitre Square (Catherine Eddowes) all stand 1,600 cubits from each other (another length enshrined in Masonic and biblical lore - corresponding to the size of the outer court of the Masons' idealised temple).

[Krinoid]

Just to reiterate as no one saw it

[ And that Hawksmoor positioned all his churches in these measurements to significant sites especially Wellclose Square which was the apex of the whole scheme which also had a Danish church with involvement from Hawksmoor. He then later says this church was still known to the locals as "st savior's church" and would have been known to prince Eddy as it was danish and researchers did not look into this in JTR the final solution era. He said there was a chapel in the school there that marriages took place.The choice of a chapel on W.S. the place created according to biblical instruction and masonic lore would have approval from masons.

The St savior name mentioned above is true!

In the following year they rented the former DANISH CHURCH in Wellclose Square, which had been used by seafarers' missions but had lain empty for several years. It was named St Saviour and St Cross, an unusual dedication in England (though S. Croix and Santa Croce are common enough elsewhere in Europe). This reflected two new associations:[/QUOTE]

This adds to my above comment

[Krinoid]

Does the Star of david imply freemasons-not to Wiki it doesn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_David

[Krinoid]

Elisabeth Stride has links to the Swedish church on record near Wellclose square. see this entry
http://www.stgite.org.uk/swedishchurch.html

which also cross references the former danish church that was next to it linked by some ripperologists and Glinert as the church Prince Eddy was married in.Note its fromer name in pertains to the Legend.
More coinicindences abound-2 triangles, I can't tell if they are equilateral.

[joelhall]

I can't imagine the killer trying to lure people to an exact spot. this is starting to suggest he was out with a measuring tape trying to find the right places.

Besides that the killings are different distances from each other than is suggested - I had the 1873 and 1884 OS maps right in front of me as I type.

I always smell a rat whenever anyone points to coincidences being part of Freemason rituals or 'belief' systems. Freemasons are always brought u with conspiracies in some form or other, but really there's no grounds for suspecting them other than them having 'secrets' (basically modes of recognition). If you're interested there is a wealth of information on freemason sites, online encyclopedias and various other websites. Better yet if you know any Freemasons, sit down and have a chat with them about their group - very few will have any problem with you asking about Freemasonry (as long as you don't come over as some sort of attacker).

The fact is the symbolism they use is to demonstrate morals, and the consequences of breaking codes. There is not an awful lot which really is secret about the fraternity, besides the modes of recognition and the fact that the meetings are of course private.

Any beliefs that they are some kind of sinister organisation who commit crimes and try and control events is really without any basis whatsoever, despite what the conspiracy theorists would have you believe.

Of course if you're prepared to be dedicated you could always join the Freemasons and see what all the fuss is about!

My uncle, my grandmas two brothers, her dad were all masons - I think her father was actually master or secretary of his lodge at one point, and I'm getting in contact with the current secretary to see what things I can find out about his time in the masons for our family history (not to mention the cabinet with a huge silver cutlery set the lodge presented to my great-grandmother - we've still no idea why). I'm sure other members of the family are or were masons too but you never know until you ask.