More than just murder?

[The Good Michael]

This was a man with sexual psychosis, violent erotic fantasies, ....it involves female anatomy, between the chest and knees.

Okay, let's use logic here.

All men are guilty of sexual psychosis and have violent erotic fantasties involving female anatomy, specifically between (and including) the chest and knees.... Masons are men... therefore Masons have erotic fanta...... My God! They did it!

Mike

[Financeman]

Has the FBI or Scotland Yard ever done a profile on the killer based on all the evidence or have I been watching too much TV?

[Financeman]

There was nothing ritualistic about it, removing the uteris is significant. I still subscribe to the view the aside from being a nutter he either was (A) got a disease from a prostitute when he was younger and wanted them to pay in a symbolic way or he was born unto a Prostitute and had such a crappy life also wanted to make them pay in symbolic sense. But I think that the escalating rage has a sexual release element to it - he wasnt going to stop

[FromHell_JacktheRipper]

Iam still thinking that there was definately more to these murders than just a random killing spree!. If it was just a man with a hatred for prostitutes or even just women in general why all the mutilations?. Entralils over the shoulder?, two upside down v shapes on catherine eddowes cheeks?, items laid out neatly at annie chapmans feet?, come on this to me was not just a crazy lunatic walking the streets there had to more to it.

You echo my sentiments exactly. Anytime a killer takes the time to attack and mutilate a human being, there is something personal involved.

There are too many people that dismiss these killings as the work of a 'madman'. Madmen get caught. Jack the Ripper didn't. There was definitely more to this than is being attributed by a vocal lot that want to live in the darkness surrounding these murders.

Hello all,

The answer to the thread question is an obvious one, if you look only at the women who were mutilated post-mortem...the murder was not the climax but a logical point of commencement. It served bloodletting purposes, and supressing the screaming or squirming needs handily. I think if he had found a woman that he could fully control alive, or figured a way to handle the issues, he would have cut before killing. The cutting was part of his desire.

The next obvious answer comes in the form of known data concerning the crimes......you can guess what he was after all you want, but really....what he takes, is what he wanted. Its all we have to go on. Anyone who can do that to Kate in 5 or 6 minutes tops...including tearing and cutting her apron,...can take a second or two to pick what he wants from the bloody holes he makes in them.

He removes intestines and places them aside.....he removes skin flaps, and sets them aside.....then he takes from the abdominal region. He even took the kidney through the abdominal cavity. He cuts genitalia, and takes some flesh with gentitalia attached from Annie. He takes uteri...partial or complete and unscarred....from the abdominal region. He is obsessed with cutting women from the crotch to the breastbone, but not so obsessed with breasts themselves, since he apparently leaves both excised breasts in Room 13. And the killer in room 13 didnt share the desire to obtain and take abdominal organs...despite having already excised them.

This was a man with sexual psychosis, violent erotic fantasies, one who makes repeated attempts to obtain specific organs, or one that doesnt know why, he just does it. And what he wants is specific.....it involves female anatomy, between the chest and knees. The throat cut in many ways is as utilitarian a gesture as the placing of the intestines over the shoulders,...its just a step towards the real goal. Thats why he cuts so deep.....so there is no fussing around, he could be fancy and puncture an artery like a vampire,...but he wants them dead and quiet before what he came for starts. IMHO of course.

Cheers all.

[joelhall]

he was working in the dark and rushing, adrenalin pumping, chucking the big bits out the way to find something small to take i reckon.

as for the masonic 'ritual' its highly doubtful this was ever carried out - just an alogorical part of the rituals really. like good mike says, theres nothing sinister about the masons, its just a club for men who believe in god, not an international terrorist organisation.

besides, if the ritual was to punish masons who broke the rules, how do these women fit in with that?

[KatBradshaw]

Why do you think it's bunk kat?

Hi Mike.
As you can see there are a lot of people on here who would agree that the masonic ritual was not a plausible explanation for the crimes.
I really would suggest you do some more research and maybe you will see for yourself why people find it so hard to believe.
I really hope that this won't put you off finding out more.

[Limehouse]

Why would Joseph Gorman have made it up? after all there really was a annie crook and a alice crook. Any kind of cover up would never be made public anyway so another reason it may never be solved.

It's much more sensible to make up stories about people who actually existed.

Masons wishing to kill prostitutes and take part in a 'cover up' would hardly perform rituals on the bodies that would easily be traced to them.

The killer was a sadistic madman who wished to depersonalise his victims, lay them open, expose them and shock those who found them. There was absolutely no more to it than murder, horrible murder.

[The Good Michael]

Mike74,

Why was it made up? I don't know...hmm...why do people make up anything? Money, a moment of fame, one's name in a book? It could be anything. Plus, it's ever so easy to make up things that can't be disproved.

Cheers,

Mike

[mike74]

Why would Joseph Gorman have made it up? after all there really was a annie crook and a alice crook. Any kind of cover up would never be made public anyway so another reason it may never be solved.

[The Good Michael]

Okay, back to the revelation of no revelation: The Masons are a fraternal order. There is nothing secret about them. There is nothing evil about them, or at least not any more than any club. They keep up a pretense of mystery because it's fun to pretend, much like kids do when they form clubs and have secret handshakes. The Masons are really just a men's club that is a way for many to have connections to further their careers. Get one drunk, as I have in Scotland, and they'll bore you to tears with their stories of ... nothing. It's a harmless old boys club. ... Okay the Baphomet statue is real, but that's all...

Cheers,

Mike

[Ben]

...which was also disowned as nonsense by its author!

[mike74]

Yes he did, but then he helped melvyn fairclough right The ripper and the royals!

[kensei]

I'm no authority on exactly where the Masonic theory comes from, but it is of course usually linked to the theory of Dr. William Gull as the Ripper, the murders committed using a horsedrawn coach driven by coachman John Netley, etc., the plot of the fictional graphic novel and Johnny Depp movie "From Hell." And that theory comes mostly if not entirely from Joseph Gorman, aka Joseph Sickert who claimed to be the illegitamite son of artist Walter Sickert. And even he eventually admitted- after his story had stirred up enough excitement- that it was nothing but "a whopping fib."

[claire]

Hi Mike74 (lots of Mikes on here!),

Apart from the practical considerations in getting intestines out of the way (and the shoulder is the most practical place for them to go, if you're at the foot of the body, and don't stick around to clear up), I'm dubious of ritual theories simply because there seems to be a certain lack of ceremony attendant to the crimes. The victimology doesn't seem to tally, the locations don't fit, and things seem much too chaotic. And it wasn't as if the purpose of murder appears to be ritual disembowelling...seems that the killer was far more interested in other organs.

I think that, in your original question, you suggested that the killings were about more than 'just' murder. And I'd say that these offences, as perpetrated by one individual driven by nothing other than issues of power and control and the lack thereof, are in themselves far more than 'just' murder. It's enough.