So who was Jack the Ripper.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi, Roma

These weren't "prostitutes" in the generally-understood sense - they were weak, desperate and practically homeless middle-aged women wandering about practically deserted streets in the small hours of the morning. If Jack selected them, or they him, it was for those reasons I'm sure - and not because he was "down on whores" (thanks, again, hoax letter-writers for cementing a myth).

[Roma]

Roma, why do you assume that Jack chose his victims rather than that they chose him?

He killed prostitutes. Prostitutes have a tendancy to approach strange men and take them to out of the way places where they won't be disturbed.

Can we make room for the idea that he killed middle aged women not because they reminded him of dear old Mum but simly because they were there? And Mary breaks the mold because she was damned unlucky.

I think that in our increasing frustration with the case we make things too complicated.

I don't think prostitutes (or every prostitute) at that time chose the men they wanted : they needed money before all, and they were prostitutes mainly because of that. That's why I think Jack chose his victims : it seems more logical, don't you think ?

[Uncle Jack]

Liz Stride had her throat cut the same night 3 women did in the East End

Who were these other women? Do we have any details on the incidents?? Names etc??

[Sasha]

Hello,Sasha!

I have a friend who agrees with you. He doesn't think we should apply modern day theories to killers from the past. I do think environment and culture made JTR slightly different. But I also think serial killers haven't changed that much from one century to the next. I think Jack was somewhat similar to his modern day counterparts. A vicious psychopath who hated women to the depths of his soul and quite enjoyed what he was doing with no remorse.

Yes, perhaps. Even if you are right, there are a number of things that would still have mitigated against the cops catching him. In those days, in the absence of a witness to the crime, a killer had to practically confess to the killing (since they did not have the forensics such as DNA, blood group, blood type etc to nail the criminal). The Whitechapel killer(s?) would not have been so lucky (to escape detection) today - or at least one hopes not! There's still the case of the Zodiac ...

Best regards
Sasha

[Nicola]

Nicola, many profilers agree with your views on this thread. The only problem I have with profilers and other experts is that they infer their theories from average behaviours of modern day serial killers. This may or may not be applicable to (post?) Victorian Whitechapel and the psychopath(s) in question in the JTR case. Still, I really like your theory about how he met his demise after MJK. That would be divine justice and very appropriate!

Sasha

Hello,Sasha!

I quite like the idea of JTR meeting a working girl who wasn't about to be his next victim and she did him in. It's always been a pet theory of mine.


I have a friend who agrees with you. He doesn't think we should apply modern day theories to killers from the past. I do think environment and culture made JTR slightly different. But I also think serial killers haven't changed that much from one century to the next. I think Jack was somewhat similar to his modern day counterparts. A vicious psychopath who hated women to the depths of his soul and quite enjoyed what he was doing with no remorse.

[Sasha]

I'm new here and want to say hello to everyone first.


I think JTR died soon after Mary Kelly,either of illness or maybe he met the wrong working girl and she gave him whatfor with a shiv(my fav theory about his demise).

Nicola, many profilers agree with your views on this thread. The only problem I have with profilers and other experts is that they infer their theories from average behaviours of modern day serial killers. This may or may not be applicable to (post?) Victorian Whitechapel and the psychopath(s) in question in the JTR case. Still, I really like your theory about how he met his demise after MJK. That would be divine justice and very appropriate!

Sasha

[Nicola]

I'm new here and want to say hello to everyone first.



I think JTR was a local man. He knew the streets and alleys very well. A stranger wouldn't know that area like that. He killed and he hauled ass quickly. That points to someone who knew the area. I don't think he was mentally ill. People like that,then or now,are easily identified. I don't believe they can carry on an everyday existence without someone noticing they are as mad as a March hare. Especially one who likes to cut up women. If his mind was disturbed by illness,he would have attacked women day or night. JTR attacked at night and chose the most vulnerable of victims. That indicates to me cunning and cowardice. I think he was a master of disguise and didn't cause suspicion in people. But I firmly believe in a sixth sense sort of thing,so there were probably people who knew him and thought JTR was not a good sort. I bet JTR was one creepy dude if you stopped and paid real attention to him.

JTR looked normal,and probably invisible to the people around him. I bet money the police talked to him and didn't think anything of it. He simply was Mr.Nobody,instantly forgettable. The kind of guy you pass on the street and you don't even look at him twice. Maybe that fueled part of his rage. I'll make them see me sort of thing. I also think he was a loner,he stayed to himself and really didn't have much use for people. Unless they were women he could cut up.

He had enough ease about him not to arouse the suspicions of street hardened women who had probably seen it all. But then long term alcohol use can dull the instincts. I once did social work with former prostitutes and almost all of them said the same thing. Almost all the ladies they knew who got killed were either so desperate or their minds so dependent on drugs,they lose that street instinct. The women JTR attacked and killed fit that category. Sometimes even the most street hardened women get killed because they are taken in by a charmer,a Ted Bundy sort. I don't think JTR was that type. He had enough to lure these ladies but not enough to attack the more clearminded ladies. I feel that he had many failed attempts before he got down to business. Maybe one of those ladies kicked his butt,enraging him even further against women. I also think he was able to engage them in some sort of conversation,if only to discuss price.He wasn't some inept mumbler when he got near women. He could conversate,however briefly.

To me, JTR was a mean man with a bone deep and visceral hatred of women. I don't know if mommy slapped him one too many times as a child or a lady of the night mocked his,ahem,small equipment. Maybe a spinster aunt paddled his bottom one too many times. Somehow,somewhere he developed an unholy hate of women. Beyond the reasons for what he was,I feel he killed because he quite liked it,it satisfied some perverse and uncontrollable need. There's no evidence that he raped those poor ladies. I believe his release and excitement came from the attack,the kill,and the cutting.THAT really got him off.

I don't think he was ever caught by the police. Mr.Nobody simply didn't arouse their suspicions. Those who felt that he was a wrongun couldn't take that to the police. It wasn't a crime to be a creep. I think JTR died soon after Mary Kelly,either of illness or maybe he met the wrong working girl and she gave him whatfor with a shiv(my fav theory about his demise).

[Sam Flynn]

2% seems very high to me...

Ah, I see, Jeff... you were referring to the article. Actually, the web page referred to says "0.2%" (there's a decimal point before the "2"), although it's not very clear.

"In contrast, another study over a thirteen year period reveals that fewer than .2 percent of schizophrenics committed murder."

Now I'll apologise for being O/T and move on

[Jeff Leahy]

2% seems very high to me...but your correct i will transfer to a more appropriate thread...sorry about that ladies and gentleman..

I'm off to Dover..back in a while

Pirate

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Jeff

2% of Schizophrenics commit murder?

Possibly - but if (for example) one half of one percent of bipolar disorder sufferers commit murder, followed by decreasing percentages for sufferers of other mental disorders, then that still would make schizophrenia the biggest fish in a small pond.

Best not expand too much on this here, though. Probably better on a "Medical/Psychological Discussions" thread.

In the meantime - sincere thanks for all those links.

[Jeff Leahy]

PS Hi Sam

http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Thought_Disorders/Schizo/articles/schizophrenics_rage.asp

2% of Schizophrenics commit murder?

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro06/web1/cheffron.html

link to alchohol

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002660.html

Genetic link

Few more interesting sites, particularly the genetic find.

Catch you later Sam

[Jeff Leahy]

I guess the puzzle re: MJK has always been her neetley folded clothes..

She undresses, folds her clothes and goes to bed..was Jack already in the room with her? or did he let himself in via the broken window?

Perhaps he watched, was an earlier client, and let himself back in?

Pirate

[Dark Teacher]

Hi mariag.

Sorry, I was just responding to some previous comments from Pirate Jack and Damien. I'm not sure how to post quick replies which include quotations yet.

Dark Teacher

[mariag]

I agree that he was a local man--what compelling evidence is there that he wasn't?

Not sure about MJK knowing her killer. Yes, the crimes took place in a small geographic location, but it was very densly populated. So, maybe by sight and maybe not at all. I tend to think that the killer ust got lucky with Mary-finding someone who lived in a room.

[Dark Teacher]

Hello all.

I think the murderer was a local man as he seems to have had a good knowledge of the maize of alleyways and courts that was Whitechapel. He also had the ability to fade nicely into the background.

I know that many gentlemen of the time wandered Whitechapel at night, but I just think that it is far more likely that they would have stood out a mile.

There has been some discussion about whether the killer knew MJK, surely in a community such as this with its pubs and lodging houses, everybody would everyone else?

I agree entirely with mariag that we are in danger of over complicating things.

Dark Teacher