A broken down masher

[MrBarnett]

I’d always thought of mashers as being ‘stage door Johnnies’ - fans of female performing artists who lived in hope of experiencing a private performance . The term could be extended to cover any hopeful/predatory male whose attentions were unwarranted.

[c.d.]

Hello Pat,

Yeah I seem to recall it always being used in some comedic setting.

c.d.

[Pcdunn]

Correct, c.d. I recall that from the comedy show "Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In", back in the late 60's and early 70's.

When the Old Man character played by Arte Johnson would lean over and whisper suggestively to Ruth Buzzi's Old Woman character, she'd whop him with her handbag and shout "Masher!"

That was an old term then, I think.

[c.d.]

In America, I think the meaning is more along the lines of a man who makes unwanted passes at women although I think the term is outdated now.

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

That's a fair point but I still think that, given the theme of Casebook, it's an interesting definition, however recent it may be.

Oh, undoubtedly, Bridewell. Oddities like that always intrigue me.

[Bridewell]

Thanks for the link, Bridewell, but the citation appears to point to the "American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition". No date is given as to when it was first used in this sense, and I don't know if the word would have been thus used in 19th century England. Or 19th century America for that matter.

That's a fair point but I still think that, given the theme of Casebook, it's an interesting definition, however recent it may be.

[Sam Flynn]

The Free Dictionary adds an interesting definition in this context:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/masher

Thanks for the link, Bridewell, but the citation appears to point to the "American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition". No date is given as to when it was first used in this sense, and I don't know if the word would have been thus used in 19th century England. Or 19th century America for that matter.

[Bridewell]

The Free Dictionary adds an interesting definition in this context:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/masher

[Joshua Rogan]

I was just enjoying an old episode of University Challenge when a question about mashers came up, which led me to find this site;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deborahrosereeves.com/2011/05/29/victorian-slang-in-tipping-the-velvet/amp/

[Sam Flynn]

That's odd. I've always thought that shabby genteel described someone who had once been well to do but was now in reduced circumstances. But I suppose it could work either way.

I suppose it could, but I was going by the OED definition of "shabby genteel", and the distinction between genteel and outright foppery.

Well, he did pull a knife on one...

Ludwig did, but I was referring to the definition of masher, which uses "lady killer" in the metaphorical sense of "ladies' man".

[MrBarnett]

That's odd. I've always thought that shabby genteel described someone who had once been well to do but was now in reduced circumstances. But I suppose it could work either way.

Of course you’re right, Joshua.

[Joshua Rogan]

Interesting idea, but I wouldn't think so. A shabby-genteel would be a poor, scruffy person trying to look decent and respectable, whereas a masher was a fop or a dandy - i.e. someone who tarted themselves up way beyond how normal decent, respectable people would look.

That's odd. I've always thought that shabby genteel described someone who had once been well to do but was now in reduced circumstances. But I suppose it could work either way.

I hope that "lady-killer" in this context means a lady's man or charmer, not a slayer of unfortunates

Well, he did pull a knife on one...
Incidentally, the knife was variously described as a long-bladed knife, a big knife, a penknife, an ordinary clasp knife. I can't remember what thread that might be relevant to, but I guess a knife might look bigger if you're facing the pointy end.

Also, am I right in thinking that the unfortunate attacked by Ludwig was the same One-Armed Liz who mis-identified the body of Stride as Annie Morris a couple of weeks later?

[Sam Flynn]

a broken down one [masher] had fallen on hard times? Could it be another way of saying "shabby genteel"?

Interesting idea, but I wouldn't think so. A shabby-genteel would be a poor, scruffy person trying to look decent and respectable, whereas a masher was a fop or a dandy - i.e. someone who tarted themselves up way beyond how normal decent, respectable people would look.

PS a would-be ladykiller sounds spot on!

I hope that "lady-killer" in this context means a lady's man or charmer, not a slayer of unfortunates

[Joshua Rogan]

Wow, quick work chaps, thanks!

So a masher is another term for a swell, and a broken down one had fallen on hard times?
Could it be another way of saying "shabby genteel"?


PS a would-be ladykiller sounds spot on!

[Darryl Kenyon]

(I left out the "lady-killer" bit in case it caused confusion )

I take your point Sam. That part of the explanation went completely over my head