Aldgate post office location

[Debra A]

Wow, thanks everyone!
First off, are Aldgate and High Street two separate addresses, rather than one? I've been assuming they were, but I guess not.

I think the Post Office locations are clear on these two maps, unfortunately I seem to lack the ability to clip and resize them so they can be uploaded.

1887 Goad

http://britishlibrary.georeferencer.com/map/m1XsTlY3wQ1YUmqibO06it/201404171334-XT2Wal/visualize

1894 ORdnance Survey

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=19&lat=51.5137&lon=-0.0778&layers=163&b=1

The Goad map shows a couple of warehouses near no.2 High Street, and also handy skylights which may have been the means of entry. There seems to be an empty lot at the back, however by 1894 there are a couple of buildings there between Duke St and Hanover Place. If these had just been built in 1888, could they be the empty buildings where the thieves got in?

That's if I understand your post correctly Debs, that the move must have happened sometime in 1888?

Yes, it looks like it may have moved some time in 88 according to the land tax records, Joshua. I don't know exactly when in 1888 though.

The property listed with occupiers Eliza Jones &postmaster general in 1887 and just Eliza Jones in 88 (no mention of the post) was 19/20 Aldgate, as Simon posted. Aldgate High St was a continuation of Aldgate. No. 52 Duke St (empty) was owned by Lewis Harris in 1888 as was No. 19/20 Aldgate.

No 2 Aldgate High St a couple of doors down was not listed as a post office in 87 but was in 88/89.

[Debra A]

The press accounts state that:
- A Warehouse was behind the P.O.
- this warehouse had an address on Duke Street.
- access to the P.O. was gained through a trap door on the roof, not a sky-light.

No.52 Duke St. was directly behind the P.O. it was not a dwelling (D), but a shop (S), and it was empty. So it must have been used for storage - ie; warehouse.
As Debs pointed out, Lewis Myers owned both the P.O. at 19/20 Aldgate, and No. 52 Duke St., behind the P.O. - the empty shop.

The site at No.2 Aldgate High St. has no premises behind it which are on Duke st., so I think the corner premises at 19/20 Aldgate is the Post Office in question that was burgled.

I think you are right, Jon.
The Land Tax Register assesments were for the year 1888, ending 24th March 1889 so the change in address could have been any time up to that date.

[Wickerman]

Perhaps it was the predictably easy access to the existing P.O. (ie; this burglary) that persuaded the authorities to relocate the P.O.?

[Joshua Rogan]

I think you are right, Jon.
The Land Tax Register assesments were for the year 1888, ending 24th March 1889 so the change in address could have been any time up to that date.

Does that work the other way around? That is, if the original PO isn't listed in the 1888 register, it must have moved by 24th March 1888?

[Joshua Rogan]

Perhaps it was the predictably easy access to the existing P.O. (ie; this burglary) that persuaded the authorities to relocate the P.O.?

That's a very good point!

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Joshua


this was discussed in some detail in Gavin Bromley's article on Mitre Square in Ripperologist #74, and I don't think there was a clear answer.

not read the article in sometime, so may be worth having a look.


Steve

Thanks for the pointer Steve. Any chance you (or anyone) could provide a link? For some reason my browser refuses to let me see the older issues...

[Debra A]

Does that work the other way around? That is, if the original PO isn't listed in the 1888 register, it must have moved by 24th March 1888?

The 1888 register covers the timeframe March/April 1888 to March 24th 1889. In the 1889 register there is a notation 'Reclaimed from 29 Sept 1889' in the value colums and also the date 23 March 89 is noted so it looks like the property owner was exempt between those two dates at least?

[Joshua Rogan]

Hmmm. Thanks Debs.... I just wish I was fiscally savvy enough to know what that meant.

[Debra A]

Hmmm. Thanks Debs.... I just wish I was fiscally savvy enough to know what that meant.

I don't have a clue either other than it seems to be saying 19/20 Aldgate was not in use from the start of the tax year March/April 89 until Sept 1889, when it was excempt from tax. The full amount was payable March/April 88 until March/April 89 though so I am guessing it was occupied the whole of 88 in that case? Just a guess though.

[Joshua Rogan]

I don't have a clue either other than it seems to be saying 19/20 Aldgate was not in use from the start of the tax year March/April 89 until Sept 1889, when it was excempt from tax. The full amount was payable March/April 88 until March/April 89 though so I am guessing it was occupied the whole of 88 in that case? Just a guess though.

Oh, I'm confused - I thought your earlier post said that 19/20 Aldgate was only listed for 1887?
There's something about the mere mention of tax affairs that muddles my brain.

The only mentions of the robbery I've found so far (albeit seemingly all from the same source) refer to the Post Office address as High Street, Aldgate. Which, if the old PO was in Aldgate, seems to point to the robbery taking place at the relocated site...?

[Joshua Rogan]

The Star 1st Oct describes it as;

"Aldgate Post-office, the back part of which looks out on the scene of the murder"

This seems somewhat optimistic, since neither building has anything like a view of Mitre Square, as far as the maps show.

[Wickerman]

The Star 1st Oct describes it as;

"Aldgate Post-office, the back part of which looks out on the scene of the murder"

This seems somewhat optimistic, since neither building has anything like a view of Mitre Square, as far as the maps show.

Correct, "Aldgate Post Office" is the address at 19/20 Aldgate, but it's a bit of a stretch to say you can view the murder sight from there.

[Debra A]

Oh, I'm confused - I thought your earlier post said that 19/20 Aldgate was only listed for 1887?
There's something about the mere mention of tax affairs that muddles my brain.

The only mentions of the robbery I've found so far (albeit seemingly all from the same source) refer to the Post Office address as High Street, Aldgate. Which, if the old PO was in Aldgate, seems to point to the robbery taking place at the relocated site...?

I just posted what was in the land tax records at 19/20 Aldgate and mentioned the 88 entry did not have 'postmaster general' alongside Eliza Jones in 88 like it did in 87 (crossed through in 87) Eliza was still listed at 19/20 in 88. Was she the post mistress? Or was she the tobbacconist that also occupied the building? I was just relating what the Land Tax Records say to try and help.

Gav's articles are Rip 74 and 75 btw.

[Joshua Rogan]

I just posted what was in the land tax records at 19/20 Aldgate and mentioned the 88 entry did not have 'postmaster general' alongside Eliza Jones in 88 like it did in 87 (crossed through in 87) Eliza was still listed at 19/20 in 88. Was she the post mistress? Or was she the tobbacconist that also occupied the building? I was just relating what the Land Tax Records say to try and help.

Gav's articles are Rip 74 and 75 btw.

My mistake, I got confused. But even if I don't always understand your posts right away, I always appreciate them.

[Debra A]

My mistake, I got confused. But even if I don't always understand your posts right away, I always appreciate them.

No worries, Joshua. I find the land tax records just as confusing and frustrating sometimes. Although I did manage to find the name of the person listed at 29 Aldgate High Street in 1888 the other day, showing the address does seem to have existed in 88. This is the address Eddowes was arrested outside the evening before her death. A William Hatterley, ironmonger was listed there in 1888. Interestingly a cousin of Thomas Cutbush was listed with a business three doors down at #30!