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Exhumation of the victims today.

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  • mpriestnall
    replied
    According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jane_Kelly:

    Daily Telegraph of 10 November 1888 described her as "tall, slim, fair, of fresh complexion, and of attractive appearance" and Wikipedia states:
    "Contemporary reports estimated Kelly's height at 5 feet and 7 inches (1.70 metres)."

    Tall, slim and short and stout at the same time...Kelly was a true legend!
    Last edited by mpriestnall; 07-20-2021, 10:26 AM.

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  • mpriestnall
    replied
    Illustrated Police News 17-11-1888: https://www.casebook.org/press_repor.../il881117.html

    "Maurice Lewis, a tailor, living in Dorset-street, stated that he had known the deceased woman for the last five years. Her name was Mary Jane Kelly. She was short, stout, and dark.

    For various reasons it's difficult to be confident when making a visual comparison between the IPN picture of Kelly and the pictures of the butchered Miller's Court victim. But those obvious reasons not withstanding, I'm not seeing a short, stout, dark woman in the Kelly picture. I referring in particular to that "Kelly" picture as on Andrew Cook's book.

    Appreciate any comments from ya' all.

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  • mpriestnall
    replied
    My view on finding Kelly at St Patrick's Cemetery:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lxDjd_fi8

    "There wasn't a breath of wind last night yet the sails of the windmill went round and round and round".

    Enough said.
    Last edited by mpriestnall; 06-14-2021, 10:56 AM.

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  • Fantomas
    replied
    I wonder, then, if elimination could be the way forward in using what can possibly be used of the bodies/murder weapons/props. Is there a sophisticated enough technique that could see DNA or other evidence from the possessions/corpses of the main suspects compared and contrasted with any of the biological or other physical evidence from the crime scenes. For example if Tumblety's DNA is not even in trace evidence on a few key artefacts, he can't be JtR?

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  • clark2710
    replied

    I'm a little late responding to this one . I asked a very similar question and did a bit of reading on my own on this very topic. First the DNA. It's important to note that DNA lasts a very very long time if the body is buried down a few feet. Having said that, Lets use Mary Kelly as the example here, that speaks to Mary's DNA, any DNA from the killer would be almost certainly gone depending on anything present in the grave or on her body or what have you and how she was buried that the killer left his DNA on...i.e. was she wrapped in something or put in a pine box or whatever along with an article of clothing the killer may have left DNA on. All of this is assuming you could find her in the first place. Her original burial site was lost to time and even if you found it, correct me if I'm wrong, but her grave site was reused so has graves atop it; or am I mistaken? At any rate there would be a great and I mean GREAT deal of luck involved in simply finding her grave, not to mention because there are no living relatives to ask permission from you'd have to seek help from the government and even then the cemetery itself may have recourse to say; nope not gonna happen. I don't know the laws concerning these things if exhumation were granted by the government and the cemetery didn't wish it happen. At any rate the only people that it would help to find Mary Kelly's actual grave site and body, dig her up, run DNA and so on, would be to be able to knock on someone's door and say; guess what you're a direct descendant of the final victim of Jack the Ripper. In the case of the other victims where their burial sites are known, they have families living today or what have you; here's the issue. Put simply so much time has passed that the graves, I don't believe, would hold anything of value that would point to the killer.

    Last edited by clark2710; 04-27-2021, 02:38 PM.

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  • mpriestnall
    replied
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
    It just needed to be said, in my view.
    Far too many nonsense-based conspiracy theories these days. I have to wonder what the world is coming to. This was such a minor example but Kattrup nailed it.
    Don't take it personal Martyn.
    No Kattrup did not nail it. But I respect both your and Kattrup views and we just have to agree to disagree on whether there was a conspiracy/cover up or not..

    Regards

    Martyn
    Last edited by mpriestnall; 04-12-2021, 09:37 AM.

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  • Wickerman
    replied
    It just needed to be said, in my view.
    Far too many nonsense-based conspiracy theories these days. I have to wonder what the world is coming to. This was such a minor example but Kattrup nailed it.
    Don't take it personal Martyn.

    Leave a comment:


  • mpriestnall
    replied
    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

    One fine example of level-headed thinking, well done that man!
    Not so level-headed when Kattup argued against a point (reason for non-exhumation) that no one actually made and that everyone already generally accepted.

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  • mpriestnall
    replied
    Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
    1. I'm constantly amazed by people's belief in present-day governments being willing to risk their political life for safeguarding a supposed, unprovable conspiracy that happened more than a century ago.

    2. Seems like an awful lot of paperwork and bureaucracy to keep track of "untouchable" graves over a span over 130 years, in order to maintain a secret that no-one in government cares about. Frankly, I think the UK government has more worrying concerns than covering up an ancient conspiracy. Which also never happened anyway.

    3. The reasons for not exhuming the bodies seem pretty clear: it's highly unlikely that MJK's body will be found, and one would have to disturb 10-20 other graves in order to attempt it. Plus the potential benefit (DNA-analysis of MJK) is very small and unlikely to bring any furtherance of the ends of justice - while she might potentially be better id'ed, there's absolutely no reason to think that analysing her DNA would bring her killer to justice.
    Thanks for sharing your opinions on my opinions.

    To be clear, I didn't state that the only reason exhumation will not be take place is because the authorities didn't want the "Kelly"'s body identified to protect the JTR conspiracy. I am like everyone else reading this thread are already aware of the impracticabilities of exhumation. I was merely adding another reason why it wouldn't go ahead.

    Martyn
    Last edited by mpriestnall; 04-06-2021, 12:58 PM.

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  • Wickerman
    replied
    Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
    I'm constantly amazed by people's belief in present-day governments being willing to risk their political life for safeguarding a supposed, unprovable conspiracy that happened more than a century ago.

    Seems like an awful lot of paperwork and bureaucracy to keep track of "untouchable" graves over a span over 130 years, in order to maintain a secret that no-one in government cares about. Frankly, I think the UK government has more worrying concerns than covering up an ancient conspiracy. Which also never happened anyway.

    The reasons for not exhuming the bodies seem pretty clear: it's highly unlikely that MJK's body will be found, and one would have to disturb 10-20 other graves in order to attempt it. Plus the potential benefit (DNA-analysis of MJK) is very small and unlikely to bring any furtherance of the ends of justice - while she might potentially be better id'ed, there's absolutely no reason to think that analysing her DNA would bring her killer to justice.
    One fine example of level-headed thinking, well done that man!

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  • DJA
    replied
    Meh,Freemasons

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  • Kattrup
    replied
    Originally posted by mpriestnall View Post
    Notwithstanding one should never say never, the authorities will never allow the exhumation of the supposed body of Kelly to avoid the possibility of DNA being extracted from it and used to prove it wasn't Kelly after all.
    I'm constantly amazed by people's belief in present-day governments being willing to risk their political life for safeguarding a supposed, unprovable conspiracy that happened more than a century ago.

    Seems like an awful lot of paperwork and bureaucracy to keep track of "untouchable" graves over a span over 130 years, in order to maintain a secret that no-one in government cares about. Frankly, I think the UK government has more worrying concerns than covering up an ancient conspiracy. Which also never happened anyway.

    The reasons for not exhuming the bodies seem pretty clear: it's highly unlikely that MJK's body will be found, and one would have to disturb 10-20 other graves in order to attempt it. Plus the potential benefit (DNA-analysis of MJK) is very small and unlikely to bring any furtherance of the ends of justice - while she might potentially be better id'ed, there's absolutely no reason to think that analysing her DNA would bring her killer to justice.

    Leave a comment:


  • DJA
    replied
    Good luck.

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  • mpriestnall
    replied
    Originally posted by DJA View Post
    o

    I hope Prosector finds his great aunt,however I am confident that MJK was a 29 year old local named Mary Ann Kelly.
    G' Day DJA,

    I have a candidate for Kelly too and we can't all be right!

    I have a lot of time for Prosector's book. I thought it was very well written.

    My candidate for JTR (got one of those too) was a surgeon's son and I found some interesting and useful material in his book regarding JTR's supposed anatomical skill and/or knowledge.

    FWIW my take on the Miller's Court event is that another person (not Kelly) was murdered to kill off the investigation and to provide cover for Kelly's relocation.

    Notwithstanding one should never say never, the authorities will never allow the exhumation of the supposed body of Kelly to avoid the possibility of DNA being extracted from it and used to prove it wasn't Kelly after all.

    My 2d.

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  • DJA
    replied


    I hope Prosector finds his great aunt,however I am confident that MJK was a 29 year old local named Mary Ann Kelly.
    Last edited by DJA; 04-05-2021, 05:23 PM.

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