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  • #76
    Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
    Why could it not have happened Trevor?
    Ditto
    Regards

    Herlock






    "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

      There is no evidence to show kosminski was ever arrested and for any of the aspects of the Id parade to have been real that would have had to happen
      it did not and could not have happened

      www.trevormarriott.co.uk
      it wasn't an ID parade but a confrontation ID. in any case the police may have said kos was a possible witness to set the whole thing up.
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Harry D View Post

        This is my thinking, Jeff. I don't believe the witness literally refused to testify because the suspect was a fellow jew. That might have been the case for all we know, but the conclusion itself was conjecture on Anderson & Swanson's part.
        Hello Harry,

        I think it was basically a way for them to save face.

        c.d.

        Comment


        • #79
          e
          Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

          There is no evidence to show kosminski was ever arrested and for any of the aspects of the Id parade to have been real that would have had to happen
          it did not and could not have happened

          www.trevormarriott.co.uk
          Hello Trevor,

          Are you saying that this could not have been done if Kosminski was simply a person of interest and not formally arrested?

          c.d.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
            If, as seems likely Kosminski was a suspect [Strong suspect, Mac, Suspects name, Swanson], it seems reasonable to suggest that the police would have tried questioning him. They would probably only have had a small length of time to hold him and not enough evidence to charge him originally. So they try an ID with a witness to further gather evidence. When a suspect is known but not available, IE he refuses to be put on some form of ID parade, the police can use a confrontation without the suspects consent. This is probably what happened with Kosminski. The witness was probably not certain he was the right man [for whatever reason], so the police had to let Kosminski go [not enough evidence]. Only for him to be watched afterwards, [City police, day and night, Swanson]. So his family decided the best course of action was to place him in Colney Hatch.
            Is this a reasonable course of proceedings or am I missing something?
            Regards Darryl
            Confrontation was the most likely, as I explain in my book.

            Trevor is playing by the book, however in reality the book was often ignored for the sake of results. Whether they are obtained via one route or another.

            Monty




            Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

            http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by c.d. View Post
              e

              Hello Trevor,

              Are you saying that this could not have been done if Kosminski was simply a person of interest and not formally arrested?

              c.d.
              The person of interest thang is irrelevant. The fact that there was seemingly grounds to suspect a man named Kosminski and have him identified, is.

              The result of that identification does not, necessarily, have to directly result in an arrest and charge. Especially if one considers his personal situation at the time of the ID parade.

              Anderson was commenting from a Barristers point of view when lamenting the difference between British and French police powers.

              Monty
              Last edited by Monty; 08-23-2019, 01:08 AM.




              Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

              http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                e

                Hello Trevor,

                Are you saying that this could not have been done if Kosminski was simply a person of interest and not formally arrested?

                c.d.
                Exactly that would need cooperation and consent

                www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                Comment


                • #83
                  Well, Sadler was only a person of interest in the JTR murders and only charged with the murder of Francis Coles by Henry Moore on the 15 Feb. Yet on the 17 Feb it seems likely that Sadler was confronted by Joseph Lawende [A-Z, amongst others], as reported by the Telegraph. Lawende was not an eyewitness in the murder of Francis Coles,and Sadler was not charged with the murder of Catherine Eddowes, yet Lawende was still being used as a witness.
                  Regards Darryl

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Monty View Post

                    The person of interest thang is irrelevant. The fact that there was seemingly grounds to suspect a man named Kosminski and have him identified, is.

                    The result of that identification does not, necessarily, have to directly result in an arrest and charge. Especially if one considers his personal situation at the time of the ID parade.

                    Anderson was commenting from a Barristers point of view when lamenting the difference between British and French police powers.

                    Monty
                    And, of course, it seems that following the identification Kosminski was returned to his brother's house and kept under surveillance. His family had him committed, thereby presumably thwarting any intention by the police of arresting and charging him. Why the police did not arrest Kosminski as soon as he had been identified isn't clear, of course, but presumably it had something to do with the witness's refusal to testify. Anderson, in The Lighter Side, seems to emphasise the eye-witness, perhaps holding his responsible.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                      Well, Sadler was only a person of interest in the JTR murders and only charged with the murder of Francis Coles by Henry Moore on the 15 Feb. Yet on the 17 Feb it seems likely that Sadler was confronted by Joseph Lawende [A-Z, amongst others], as reported by the Telegraph. Lawende was not an eyewitness in the murder of Francis Coles,and Sadler was not charged with the murder of Catherine Eddowes, yet Lawende was still being used as a witness.
                      Regards Darryl
                      Presumably to see if Sadler could have been the man Lawende saw?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Monty View Post

                        The person of interest thang is irrelevant. The fact that there was seemingly grounds to suspect a man named Kosminski and have him identified, is.

                        The result of that identification does not, necessarily, have to directly result in an arrest and charge. Especially if one considers his personal situation at the time of the ID parade.

                        Anderson was commenting from a Barristers point of view when lamenting the difference between British and French police powers.

                        Monty
                        Hi Monty
                        You know as well as I do that the police back then could not drag someone off the street, or out of their house to take part in any ID procedure. The only way it could have happened, and I doubt this very much because I dont believe it ever happened in the way described, was for Kosminski to have been arrested on suspicion, but that falls flat on its face, because there is no evidence to show that he was ever arrested, and all the rest that followed this so called positive ID is to far fetched to even consider.

                        www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by PaulB View Post

                          Presumably to see if Sadler could have been the man Lawende saw?
                          Yes, of course Paul, but the point I am making is Trevor says Kosminski could not have forwarded for any sort of ID unless he was arrested on suspicion of being Jack. But Sadler was not arrested nor charged with Eddowes murder [only Coles], yet he was subject to some form of Id by Lawende.
                          Regards Darryl

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            If Kosminski did attack his sister with a knife and somebody, perhaps his brother in law worried for his wife relayed this and his, or even the families suspicions of Kosminski being Jack would that not be enough to hold and question him with perhaps some form of ID?
                            Regards Darryl

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                              no id say your bang on. and also that the police were probably also hoping that with a confrontation ID, of a chance that kosminski would confess.
                              Hi Abby, this is a fair point. I always assumed that the witness gave away something so Kosminski knew he had been identified. But perhaps the police mentioned it to him later in the hope, as you say Abby of getting a confession.
                              Regards Darryl

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Monty View Post

                                Anderson was commenting from a Barristers point of view when lamenting the difference between British and French police powers.

                                Monty
                                Hi Monty, I have always been interested in what powers the Victorian French police had over the British one?
                                Regards Darryl

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