Seeing Sarah

[Normy]

Hi all
I’m not well read up on the facts here but was pondering this:
If Hutchinson was the wide awake hat man and he was outside Kelly’s Lodgings for 45 minutes wouldn’t he have seen Sarah Lewis walk passed? She clearly saw him standing there, whoever he was.
If this was the ripper whether it was Hutchinson or not, doesn’t it imply he was targeting a particular person and not striking randomly?

Cheers

[Ben]

Hi Normy, and welcome.

If this was the ripper whether it was Hutchinson or not, doesn’t it imply he was targeting a particular person and not striking randomly?

Possibly, although a degree of pre-crime surveillance of the order adopted by, among others, Bundy and BTK needn't hint at a particular fixation with Kelly (though that can't be ruled out either). It's feasible that he noticed Kelly bringing clients/friends home and considered her a suitable victim on account of her single accomodation, or he could have appraised himself of her domestic circumstances several days prior to the murder in the capacity of a casual client. Unfortunately, we have no data as to how much surveillance, if any, took place prior to some of the earlier murders.

All the best,
Ben

P.S. Yes, it would have been very hard for the wideawake-wearer not to have noticed Sarah Lewis.

[Normy]

Hi Ben
Thanks for the input, yes it's possible he had spotted her earlier of noticed her and saw his opportunity.
It might even be possible that Hutchinson was in the lodging doing the deed while he had a lookout outside waiting for him, who omitted to tell Hutchinson that a woman had walked passed.
Were there not two men seen at the scene of the Stride murder. According to Israel Schwartz
Second man: Aged 35, 5'11", fresh complexion, light brown hair, dark overcoat, old black hard felt hat with a wide brim, clay pipe.
I'm not sure if this would be the same as a wide awake hat!


Cheers

[cats meat man]

The man at 2:30
He's meen and he's dirty
He waits in the shadows and watches where she goes
And Mary's been singing to keep the wolf from her door
But the wolf in sheeps clothing just smiled and said,'more'
Now all is quiet and all the clowns have all gone to bed
As he creeps down the passage to awaken the dead

[Normy]

Thanks Cats meat man.
I'll be sleeping with the light on tonight.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Ben,

Yes, it would have been very hard for the wideawake-wearer not to have noticed Sarah Lewis.

If that was Hutchinson, of course. As you know, I've long entertained the possibility that the "Wideawake" man Lewis saw standing against the lodging-house wall might have been the same man Hutchinson said he saw entering a Dorset Street lodging-house that same night.

[Normy]

Hi Sam
Lewis and Hutchinson seem to be in the same place at pretty much the same time, is it likely a man just slipped in there as they came and went?
Or is it Hutchinson she sees but either he does see her or it's an accomplice maybe watching out in case Barnett appeared.

Cheers

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Norm,

Lewis and Hutchinson seem to be in the same place at pretty much the same time

Witness timings, especially in this context where so few ordinary people had their own watches or clocks, are rarely reliable. So, in answer to the question of why Hutchinson didn't see Lewis, one of the legitimate possibilities is that one or both had guessed the time incorrectly, and that she had gone indoors before his arrival in Dorset Street.

[Normy]

I guess that's the case, but so close.
She saw a man loitering, he also was loitering as he admitted in the same vicinity.

Coincidence?

Hmm!

[Sam Flynn]

She saw a man loitering, he also was loitering as he admitted in the same vicinity.

She saw a man against a lodging-house wall in Dorset Street, he says he saw a man enter a lodging-house in Dorset Street.

[Ben]

Hi Gareth,

Yours is a very reasonable possibility.

On balence, though, I'm inclined to consider the identifcation of Hutchinson with the wideawake loiterer as the more likely, primarily on the grounds of timing and coincidence.

Best regards,
Ben

[joelhall]

how do we know he didnt see her?

[Ben]

He almost certainly did see her, Joel. Impossible to miss, although the implications of her arrival on the scene at that time may only have registered later.

[joelhall]

He almost certainly did see her, Joel. Impossible to miss, although the implications of her arrival on the scene at that time may only have registered later.

thats what i thought so whats with all the puzzling?

[Normy]

Morning!
Here's Sarah's quote:
'I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house. I noticed the time by the Spitalfields' Church clock. When I went into the court, opposite the lodging-house I saw a man with a wideawake. There was no one talking to him. He was a stout-looking man, and not very tall. The hat was black. I did not take any notice of his clothes. The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one.'

If it wasn't Hutchinson, then whoever it was might well have seen the ripper and not come forward for whatever reason.