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  • The Loch Ness Monster

    Just for fun here, I don't think I've ever seen a thread under "Other Mysteries" about that greatest of all UK mysteries, the Loch Ness Monster. I visited Loch Ness while on vacation in England and Scotland in 2008 and stayed a night in the village of Drumnadrochit. As a lifelong afficianado of cryptozoology it was a real high point for me. For the record, I did not see Nessie, but nor did I really expect to. I visited the two exhibition centers in the town, and was hoping to meet with famous Nessie hunter Adrian Shine who runs the biggest one, but he was out of town at the time. I went on one of the cruises that are offered on the lake and scanned the water intently with binoculars, noting how even far from shore the air smelled not fishy or seaweedy but like the childrens' barnyard I recalled from county fairs in my youth, due to the large number of sheep pastures that surround the lake. The tour guide turned out to be a non-believer in Nessie, surprisingly, and spent the whole time talking about the non-Nessie related history of the area which involved the Jacobites, William Wallace, etc. It seemed to put the theory that Nessie is a creation of the locals in order to draw tourists in to rest. Yes, there are gift shops that sells Nessie trinkets, but not nearly as much as you would expect for such a well known attraction. I had to walk to the famous Urquhart Castle (having seen it earlier from the boat), a 40-minute walk from the village, and got there 20 minutes after it had closed for the day, but I still got to see it and to gaze out at Urquhart Bay, the most popular spot for Nessie sightings. There were some interesting "trails" that I caught on video through the algae on the surface, but admittedly they were probably made by boats. I wanted to get down to the shoreline, but hesitated at walking across private land. Then some teenagers came along and crawled over the fence I'd been contemplating climbing over myself, asked me if I had a light for their cigarettes, and I asked them if it was ok to cross this land. "Oh yeah, it's all ok," they said. So I made my way down through a sheep pasture, and enjoyed a brief stay at the waterline of Loch Ness and collected a stone and a bottle of water as souvenirs. As I was leaving I saw those kids wading and splashing around in the shallows. If there was a monster around, neither the sheep nor the kids seemed worried. That was basically my Loch Ness experience.

    I didn't see Nessie, but I do believe SOMETHING is there. There have just been too many sightings over the years for there to be nothing to it. Theories range from something as amazing as surviving plesiosaurs to merely a population of slightly oversized sturgeon (which Adrian Shine seems to favor). Some of the skeptics' explanations fall laughably short. There was a famous sighting by a couple in a car who saw a huge animal crossing a road before plunging into the loch. I have a book in which the author says they probably saw an otter and exaggerated its size. My reaction- did you not hear them say that the animal they saw spanned the entire road?!!! An otter that big would be just as amazing as a living dinosaur! Then there is the famous 1934 "Surgeon's photograph," which in the early 90s was supposedly revealed as a hoax involving a model attached to a toy submarine, which made millions of suggestible newspaper readers make the huge leap in logic of saying ok then, if that one photo is a fake then there is no Nessie. You hear very little about the holes in the story, about how the material the model was supposedly made of hadn't been invented yet in 1934 and how toy catalogs of the day feature no toy submarine that would have done the job, etc. There's evidence that that hoax claim was itself a hoax. That doesn't automatically make the Surgeon's Photo a shot of a living dinosaur, it just leaves it in the realm of speculation.

    While sitting on the shore of Loch Ness and seeing what it was really like, I had to admit to myself- you know all those people who say that if huge creatures lived in this lake they'd be seen way more often? Well-- those people are right. It's not a bunch of plesiosaurs. Can't be. They would indeed be seen all the time and their existence would not be in doubt. But there IS something, there has to be. There are just too many sightings- which yes, have diminished in recent years, but they do still occur. So what about one of the more whymsical theories, that Nessie is something paranormal? Something that is not in solid physical form all the time. Something that shows up on film and on sonar sometimes, but is at other times intangible. Something that in days of yore in old Scotland would have been referred to as a water kelpie or even as a dragon. Scientists shun theories like that, but no more than they shun theories about other subjects featured on this "Other Mysteries" page such as ghosts and UFOs.

  • #2
    I used to love Nessie,still do I suppose but I havn't read about her for years.
    She was explained as waves,boats,otters,a line of birds, logs (floating and sunken) a film prop,still there I believe, people seeing what they want to see,and of course alcohol.
    I remember a photograph of a witness to an Irish lake monster,and he certainly didn't look a stranger to a pint of guiness to me!
    There are lake monsters reports from all over the world,Champ? is one of them, as I remember,but there are or were plenty of others.
    Even Sandwell Valley reportedly had an alligator in Swan Pool! interesting news to me as I had fished it on numerous occasions and I am sure I would have noticed something like that swimming about.
    There was a particularly vicious labrador that for no apparent reason suddenly bit the end off my float rod, but it didn't look much like an alligator.
    The Fortean Times investigated a similair report from a pool in Cannock, they didn't find anything but one of their team discovered a dealer in exotic reptiles had gone bust and may have been dumping his stock in the local waters, from memory I think thats what the valleygator as it was called got explained away as.
    Not quite the end of the story as someone from a local paranormal organisation told me he had a report of a bigfoot reported by a jogger in a field next to Swan Pool!
    Cannock Chase is currently cryptozoological central around here,with reports of, well,anything you can think of.
    Personally I think the strangest place on the planet is between our ears, but I do love the Cryptos!
    All the best.

    Comment


    • #3
      I seem to remember a theory about the Surgeon's Photograph being a photo of an elephant snorkeling, which sounds ridiculous but if you look at the picture, it's possible. By the way, I'm not suggesting there are elephants in Loch Ness. Everyone knows they are only indigenous to Loch Lomond.

      Best wishes,
      Steve.

      PS There is a "Cryptozoology" thread on here somewhere.

      PPS Yes, just found it on page 4 of Other Mysteries.
      Last edited by Steven Russell; 09-08-2012, 10:20 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I almost got a nessie tattoo surfacing from my cleavage, but I have a really great tattoo artist who makes me go away and think about it before I actually get it done.
        The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

        Comment


        • #5
          Boy, I just devoured every word of your post. I love your obsessive enthusiasm for the whole thing. Ahhh, the child is not dead in you!

          There was another Loch Ness Monster, you know.



          Boleskine House
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Beowulf; 09-09-2012, 05:43 AM. Reason: identification name

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Beowulf View Post
            Boy, I just devoured every word of your post. I love your obsessive enthusiasm for the whole thing. Ahhh, the child is not dead in you!

            There was another Loch Ness Monster, you know.



            Boleskine House
            Oh yes, of course. And some say it might even have been that monster that conjured up the other one.

            Comment


            • #7
              Was it 'Doc' Shiels who tried to summon the beastie through invocation?, it might have been, I remember it involved a young woman in the nip.
              I think it was the Doc who was accused of faking the photos of Morgawr,the Cornish sea monster.
              Nessie is a real mystery,as a fisherman I have spent a lot of time beside waters of all types and in all weather and light conditions, and a diving bird is a diving bird, a wave is a wave, I have never seen anything remotely like what the witnesses to Nessie are describing, yet Loch Ness is not unique in terms of its wildlife or in the actions of the wind on the water.
              Perhaps a diving bird at Loch Ness is interpreted as the monster because of the association, but not every sighting can be explained that way.
              Certainly not the sighting of the monster crossing the road, one of my favourite Nessie sightings and inexplicable, the only other explanation is that the witnesses were lying for some reason, in which case why?
              Borderlands by Mike Dash is a good read on psychological/physiological theory, but there is a whole genre that tries to explain the paranormal in terms of brain function/dysfunction,the problem being there is no universal theory that can explain away every sighting or experience, imho though it's probably where anyone coming new to the paranormal should start first, rather than the Ufo/Ghost/Crypto experience books, it might help them sort out the rubbish from those genuinely mysterious events, and whilst it might not help them understand the paranormal,it might help them understand people a little better.
              All the best.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ah, yes, the self-confessed "wickedest man in the world." I am amused at how many people call him a "monster" and yet seem to live by his creed: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole if the law." Not saying that's you at all, Beowulf, but I know quite a few on another forum that have argued this very point with me, viz: "He was a very evil man, but, by God he was right, I'm gonna do what I want!" Fascinating.
                And the questions always linger, no real answer in sight

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by RavenDarkendale View Post
                  Ah, yes, the self-confessed "wickedest man in the world." I am amused at how many people call him a "monster" and yet seem to live by his creed: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole if the law." Not saying that's you at all, Beowulf, but I know quite a few on another forum that have argued this very point with me, viz: "He was a very evil man, but, by God he was right, I'm gonna do what I want!" Fascinating.
                  I never found him to be particularly evil. Spoiled, narcissistic, fame hungry, pathetic, never got past that phase where you put everything you find in your mouth, but not evil. Mostly he was just infantile with a host of self soothing behaviors that were not socially acceptable, but not inherently amoral. I wouldn't be surprised if he sucked his thumb. But he was a fair researcher. I'll give him that.
                  The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "I never found him to be particularly evil." Errata


                    Well, he tortured and killed animals in efforts to satisfy himself sexually. He lied cheated stole and was a drug addict, filed his canine teeth to points staged supposed pagan rituals with his acolytes, designed to bring evil spirits into their midst and was a misogynist, but other than that I guess he was an ok guy

                    Back to the other Loch Ness Monster, what do you think of the recent film? (You have to wade through the commerial, though) http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/loch...wards-17018201

                    And what do you think of this?:

                    The Legend of Nessie the Ultimate and Official Loch Ness Monster Site, with up-to-date information and photographs of new and past sightings. A must for all Nessie enthusiasts.


                    24th May,1960
                    A member of the Northern Naturalists Organisations, Mr Peter O'Connor from Gateshead, Durham had a sighting. From the garden of the Foyers Hotel he and a number of other people saw the creature at around 4 o'clock in the afternoon. At first he thought it was a rowing boat about 200 yards from the Foyers shore but using his field glasses he could see a brown coloured object which was slowly sinking.


                    27th of May, 1960
                    Mr O'Connor encountered the monster yet again 3 days later. Between 6 and 6:30 a.m. he went for a walk along the shore beside Foyers Bay and the monster glided into view around the headland. He waded into the water up to his waist to get a closer view. It features were small and sheep-like and a very, very strong neck. It's skin appeared smooth, very like a seal. He turned to yell to his companion and then turned back and took this photograph, to the right, as it disappeared into the turbulence it had created.

                    27th June to 23rd July 1960
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Beowulf; 09-09-2012, 09:47 PM. Reason: quote

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Beowulf View Post
                      "I never found him to be particularly evil." Errata


                      Well, he tortured and killed animals in efforts to satisfy himself sexually. He lied cheated stole and was a drug addict, filed his canine teeth to points staged supposed pagan rituals with his acolytes, designed to bring evil spirits into their midst and was a misogynist, but other than that I guess he was an ok guy
                      He didn't kill animals to satisfy himself sexually. There was some weird thing with a cat, but that was scientific, in a sociopathic kind of way. All the other stuff is true, although he was a general misanthrope and not specifically a misogynist. I never said he had an outstanding moral compass, he just wasn't evil. Mostly just infantile. Though infants are the greatest sociopaths we will ever meet. Ok I'm done on Crowley.
                      The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by martin wilson View Post
                        Was it 'Doc' Shiels who tried to summon the beastie through invocation?, it might have been, I remember it involved a young woman in the nip.
                        I think it was the Doc who was accused of faking the photos of Morgawr,the Cornish sea monster.
                        All the best.
                        Anthony "Doc" Shiels produced two full color photos of Nessie in May 1977 in which a head and neck with orange skin protrudes above the surface, which he claimed he took from Urquhart Castle after summoning the creature psychically. Naturally there are many who believe the photos to be fakes, but I wonder if Shiels' position as a self-professed magician and entertainer made this inevitable. Of course it's a fake, people would say. Consider the source and the story he tells! But what if it's real? Almost seems like he shouldn't have bothered trying if he'd never be believed because of who he is. The orange skin color seems an odd choice for a hoaxed picture. Some salamanders are that color.

                        Shiels was also suspected of being the anonymous "Mary F." who sent two photos of the dark hump-backed sea serpent called Morgawr to the press in February 1976, taken in Falmouth Bay, Cornwall. Shiels was in the area at the time of the Morgawr sightings and claimed he saw it himself. At Midsummers that year three female witches performed a ritual and swam naked in the bay to try to magickally summon Morgawr. They claimed success. Not sure if Shiels was associated with them or not.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          24th May,1960
                          A member of the Northern Naturalists Organisations, Mr Peter O'Connor from Gateshead, Durham had a sighting. From the garden of the Foyers Hotel he and a number of other people saw the creature at around 4 o'clock in the afternoon. At first he thought it was a rowing boat about 200 yards from the Foyers shore but using his field glasses he could see a brown coloured object which was slowly sinking.


                          27th of May, 1960
                          Mr O'Connor encountered the monster yet again 3 days later. Between 6 and 6:30 a.m. he went for a walk along the shore beside Foyers Bay and the monster glided into view around the headland. He waded into the water up to his waist to get a closer view. It features were small and sheep-like and a very, very strong neck. It's skin appeared smooth, very like a seal. He turned to yell to his companion and then turned back and took this photograph, to the right, as it disappeared into the turbulence it had created.

                          27th June to 23rd July 1960[/QUOTE]

                          I was really impressed by the O'Connor photo for a long time but I eventually read that it was found to be a hoax using an inflated plastic sack in the water weighted down with rocks, and the head and neck were made out of a stick. Or at least that was the allegation- not sure if it was absolutely proven.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for the video Beowulf,and thanks for the Doc Shiels info Kensei, as I say it's been quite some time,but I can feel the old yearning to be beside the Loch returning................
                            I suppose it's time to mention the coelacanth,a sea fish supposedly extinct for 70 million years,which was news to the coelacanth, still swimming around quite happily doing whatever it is coelacanths do.
                            All the best.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by martin wilson View Post
                              Thanks for the video Beowulf,and thanks for the Doc Shiels info Kensei, as I say it's been quite some time,but I can feel the old yearning to be beside the Loch returning................
                              I suppose it's time to mention the coelacanth,a sea fish supposedly extinct for 70 million years,which was news to the coelacanth, still swimming around quite happily doing whatever it is coelacanths do.
                              All the best.
                              Ooooh, the so ugly it's cute coelacanth. I love that fish. It was known only from fossils and was universally known to have gone extinct along with the dinosaurs. Then suddenly, in 1938 one turned up alive in fishermens' nets off of South Africa. Today it's acknowledged to be a still thriving species and just a really, really big OOPS within paleontology. It's a rather hideous but fascinating looking fish, hardly small and easy to miss at five feet long, blue in color with a single-lobed tail and weird leg-like fins with which it "walks" along the bottom. Skeptics of cryptozoology have all kinds of arguments against why certain reported this-and-thats can't possibly exist, and how believing in prehistoric survivals is just silly. But with the coelacanth, they are remarkably silent. Cryptozoologists can say, "If this fish lives, DESPITE ITS DISAPPEARANCE FROM THE FOSSIL RECORD, then anything else from back then might be alive today too." And the always vocal skeptics can't say a word to refute it. That is why I love the ugly, slimy coelacanth. I wish I could pet one.

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