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If you could witness any ONE of the murders...

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  • If you could witness any ONE of the murders...

    Suppose that via magic (or sufficiently advanced technology), you are able to witness one, and only one, of the Whitechapel Murders. You will do so as an invisible ghost - nobody is aware of your presence, nobody can see or hear you, and you can't intervene. You will have to make do with the lighting at the murder scene, and you will be restricted to seeing only the murder scene and the immediate surroundings: you see the the killer and the victim enter, you see the murder, you see the killer leave and then you're done.

    You can, however, share anything you've learned with the casebook forums.

    What do you do?

    For me, this question boils down to one thing: at which murder scene could I make the biggest contribution to our knowledge of the case?

    I think the answer is Stride. If I see BS man kill Stride, then IMO that conclusively shows either that Stride is not a Ripper victim, or that everything we know about the Ripper is wrong. Either would be a major contribution. Seeing whether or not the killer was "interrupted" would have the same effect. And just by viewing the murder, I will be able to answer those two questions, no matter what the truth ends up being.

    Those of you with a specific suspect in mind might be tempted to pick Chapman, and get the best possible look at the killer. You run the risk that the murder took place earlier in the morning, and thus in the dark, but even more you run the risk that (a) it's somebody we don't have on a suspect list, and you come back to casebook saying "it's just some guy with a mustache!" and you spend the rest of your life looking through photos of Whitechapel, over-analyzing anyone with so much as a dark shadow under their nose, or (b) you realize too late that it's difficult to compare a 2D pic to a moving, 3D person with full confidence. (The same applies to those who think they might get a better look with Kelly, but there you have a much greater chance of not seeing JTR...of course not a problem if you're going there to ascertain Barnett's guilt!)

  • #2
    Clarification, Please

    Hi Damaso.

    I'm not sure I'd want to witness one of these murders, but for the sake of argument, can you please clarify what you mean when you say
    "you will be restricted to seeing only the murder scene and the immediate surroundings"?

    With your Chapman example, do you mean we would be able to see Annie and her killer enter #29, and maybe see the killer leave, but we wouldn't be able to see the murder itself?

    Same with the Kelly example; we would be able to see the killer enter and maybe leave her room, but nothing else?

    Thanks,
    Archaic

    PS: I hereby psychically predict the next poster who comes along will say, "What if we see BS Man kill Stride, and he is the Ripper?"

    Comment


    • #3
      I would pick Polly's murder, as I should be able to identify JTR as a carman, by his overalls, and maybe by a resemblence to any Lechmere descendant's photos
      ......if Cross/Lechmere were indeed the killer.

      Of course, if he wasn't, I could only say 'no, it wasn't him' -but I'm not sure that Lechmere (the poster) and Fisherman would take my word for it !

      (they definitely wouldn't if I said it was a casual labourer with an envelope addressed to 'George Hutchinson c/o Victoria Home' sticking out his pocket).
      http://youtu.be/GcBr3rosvNQ

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      • #4
        Great, Ruby; you busted my psychic prediction!

        Except I meant the next next poster...yeah, that's it.


        Archaic

        Comment


        • #5
          Eddowes, without question. Eddowes is a possible two for one; looking at clothes, shoes, possible glimpse of the blade, breathing pattern, direction of mud tracks, identity of course, off the cuff jokes only the killer of Stride would make, anything that could lend proof to whether the double was from the same hand. Still have a killer either way, but a little more would be nice.
          I confess that altruistic and cynically selfish talk seem to me about equally unreal. With all humility, I think 'whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might,' infinitely more important than the vain attempt to love one's neighbour as one's self. If you want to hit a bird on the wing you must have all your will in focus, you must not be thinking about yourself, and equally, you must not be thinking about your neighbour; you must be living with your eye on that bird. Every achievement is a bird on the wing.
          Oliver Wendell Holmes

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, witnessing only one murder you could describe the killer and be able to identify him if he was one of "the usual suspects," but for all those who don't see all of the C5 as being killed by the same man or those few who don't think any two of them were, you could never conclusively solve the whole case that way.

            My first reaction was to say Eddowes, but with the limitations of lighting it would have been the most difficult one in which to have a good view. So I'm going to say Kelly. We've just got to know what happened in that room.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would choose Chapman, Stride, Eddowes or Kelly. That way, I would find out if Lechmere was the culprit in more than one case.

              The best,
              Fisherman

              Comment


              • #8
                Ruby:

                "(they definitely wouldn't if I said it was a casual labourer with an envelope addressed to 'George Hutchinson c/o Victoria Home' sticking out his pocket)."

                Of course I would trust you just the same, Ruby - but I would wonder what Lechmere was doing with Toppys mail...

                The best,
                Fisherman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by sleekviper View Post
                  Eddowes, without question. Eddowes is a possible two for one; looking at clothes, shoes, possible glimpse of the blade, breathing pattern, direction of mud tracks, identity of course, off the cuff jokes only the killer of Stride would make, anything that could lend proof to whether the double was from the same hand. Still have a killer either way, but a little more would be nice.
                  Hello Sleek,

                  I totally agree, possibly for differing reasons..I really want to know how this person, or even these persons, if that be the case, did this is double quick time seemingly slap bang between a policeman's beat and another supplymentary beat, in terrible light and under intense pressure of being caught. Its amazing that it could even happen.

                  best wishes

                  Phil
                  Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                  Justice for the 96 = achieved
                  Accountability? ....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is a bit sick - what brutal serial killing do you want to get a ring side seat for?
                    The Nichols murder would prove it was Lechmere as he would be interrupted by Paul's approach and his 'flight' would be in that direction. The other murders wouldn't prove it was Lechmere unless you know what he looked like...
                    I don't think anyone would learn anything from any other scene unless it was a known culprit.
                    The grafitti/ apron site would also be interesting.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lechmere View Post
                      I don't think anyone would learn anything from any other scene unless it was a known culprit.
                      Indeed, which is why I`d choose Coles, as I`d know Sadler when, or if I saw him.

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                      • #12
                        Chapman

                        I, too, was tempted to say Eddowes, but I'm going to go with Chapman & 29 Hanbury Street. Just knowing the time of death would tell me a lot. I'd also get to either confirm or disprove my view that the killer found a way of preventing the yard door from being opened during the murder.

                        As an added bonus, if I said, "the Chapman murder", and wasn't asked which one, I could also finally eliminate Severin Klosowski!

                        Regards, Bridewell.
                        I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Archaic View Post
                          Hi Damaso.

                          I'm not sure I'd want to witness one of these murders, but for the sake of argument, can you please clarify what you mean when you say
                          "you will be restricted to seeing only the murder scene and the immediate surroundings"?

                          With your Chapman example, do you mean we would be able to see Annie and her killer enter #29, and maybe see the killer leave, but we wouldn't be able to see the murder itself?

                          Same with the Kelly example; we would be able to see the killer enter and maybe leave her room, but nothing else?

                          Thanks,
                          Archaic

                          PS: I hereby psychically predict the next poster who comes along will say, "What if we see BS Man kill Stride, and he is the Ripper?"
                          Sorry - your view starts with the killer and the victim arriving at the crime scene, includes the totality of the murder, and ends after the murderer leaves the scene. You only see the murder scene.

                          This restriction is there to prevent you from seeing, e,g., the GSS or whether Long saw the killer or not, etc.

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                          • #14
                            Chapman

                            Hello Damaso. You rightly anticipate. It would be Chapman--no second thought.

                            Cheers.
                            LC

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                            • #15
                              I'd like to check up on the Eddowes murder. Her apron keeps bugging me....

                              Carol

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