Mrs Prater "above": peeping ?

[Gene Lewis]

May be this is an old tarte ΰ la creme, but did anyone ever discuss of a possible peeping through the wooden floor down in n°13 ? Actually, is it possible that Mrs Prater saw more than she told ?

[Cogidubnus]

Oh dear Gene...here goes, once again, the old controversy of where Ms Prater's room actually was...personally my own previously firm belief in her residence at the rear of the house has slightly shifted, and I believe that whilst homebound she mounted the steps adjacent to MJKs dodgy partition (in which there were undoubtedly gaps) there genuinely are valid doubts as to whether her room was at the front of the house or the back...either way, I don't suppose she could see down between the floorboards...

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

Floorboards

Oh dear Gene...here goes, once again, the old controversy of where Ms Prater's room actually was...personally my own previously firm belief in her residence at the rear of the house has slightly shifted, and I believe that whilst homebound she mounted the steps adjacent to MJKs dodgy partition (in which there were undoubtedly gaps) there genuinely are valid doubts as to whether her room was at the front of the house or the back...either way, I don't suppose she could see down between the floorboards...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,

Could she see down between the floorboards? Whether she could or couldn't, it would be a strange pastime to pursue in the small hours of the morning, I would have thought.

Regards, Colin.

[Gene Lewis]

Hi Colin, not a so "strange pastime in the small hours of the morning", if you just heard somebody - indeed, your neighboor – right under crying
"oh murder", don't you think ?

Regards

[miss marple]

'Oh murder' was an exclamation, like swearing 'Oh bloody hell ' or 'damn' probably heard all the time.
Did Mary cry out? if she was awake enough to see him pull a knife , I bet she would have screamed her head off, or had some defensive wounds. I find it strange that Jack would allow her to cry out that would suggest she was asleep and woke suddenly
If Jack dispatched her quickly, and suddenly, would she have had time to say anything.


Miss Marple

[Rubyretro]

if she was awake enough to see him pull a knife , I bet she would have screamed her head off, or had some defensive wounds. I find it strange that Jack would allow her to cry out that would suggest she was asleep and woke suddenly
If Jack dispatched her quickly, and suddenly, would she have had time to say anything.

I think that she did have defensive wounds to her arms.

If Jack got in via the window (ie wasn't a client), I don't know that he would be able to stop her awakening in between the time it took him to get from the window to the bed, if she was going to wake up ?

A few seconds...a minute...long enough to cry 'Oh, Murder !'.

If it was loud enough to be heard by other people, I've no doubt she mean't it.

I will have to say that I once found a thief in my bedroom (when I was starkers and 6 months pregnant). I screamed my head off...but nobody came to 'save me'...I don't think people will move very easily on sound alone (it maybe depends on the area).

They want visual confirmation of what they're hearing...

[Robert]

The thing is, people in those days really did cry "I am murdered" or "Murder" etc while they were being murdered/subjected to near-murder. So it wasn't all that melodramatic, given the times. Now if she'd shouted "Murder! Murder most foul" then that would have been interesting.

[Debra A]

The saucer-eyed Elizabeth Prater in this pic certainly looks startled by the cry of "Oh Murder!"
It looks like she may have been "peeping" all the way from the attic too, going by the windows.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs

Great picture, but where's Diddles?

All the best

Dave

[Debra A]

Hi Debs

Great picture, but where's Diddles?

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave
Anywhere a left hook from a scary looking woman like Prater would land him! Just look at those biceps!

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs

Naaa...my missus is far more fearsome than that and the cats still end up in the same room!

Dave

[Debra A]

Hi Debs

Naaa...my missus is far more fearsome than that and the cats still end up in the same room!

Dave

I hope you don't snore then, Dave. It could be you next!

I've just been looking at the exterior illustration of Miller's Court that I posted from Lloyd's Weekly a few years ago. Funnily enough, If the illustration of Prater in bed was an accurate depiction of Prater's room ( I say if), the window matches up to the way it would be if Prater was in the attic at the back of 26. (Ignore the coloured blocks, I took the pic off a thread where it had been used to illustrate that the demolition pic of miller's Court really does show Miller's Court..many moons ago. )

[Cogidubnus]

Surely Debs that places Prater in an attic space, separated from MJKs room by both of the top two floors?

That's perhaps even more remote than the front room on the first floor (second floor fot the left-pond among us) above the shed...

All the best

Dave

[Debra A]

Surely Debs that places Prater in an attic space, separated from MJKs room by both of the top two floors?

That's perhaps even more remote than the front room on the first floor (second floor fot the left-pond among us) above the shed...

All the best

Dave

It does, Dave. But we aren't talking about the ability to peep through the floorboards here
I was naively wondering if Prater being in the attic may solve the front or back of the house problem too as the attic may have spanned the front and back of the main house (extension excluded)? I don't think anyone agrees so that's probably the end of that!

[Wickerman]

The thing about Prater is she appears to describe herself directly above room 13.
"I could have heard her moving, if she had moved" (moving furniture, I think).
"I lived in the room over where deceased lived"

We should note that she noticed "the lodging-house light was out", this I thought referred to Crossingham's over the road, consistent with her living in the attic which more likely ran from front to back, as opposed to a 1st or 2nd floor room.
However, in her pre-inquest statement she refers to Millers Court as at the back of the lodging-house.
I wonder if the light she was referring to was actually the one in the Court directly opposite Kelly's door.
In that case she may once again be implying she was living directly over room 13, her window looked out over the Court.
However, giving her address as room No. 20 doesn't help anyone, directly above room 13 should be 14.

Regards, Jon S.