Similar look of victims?

[Vigilantee]

Has anyone commented on the similarity in appearance between Nichols, Chapman and Kelly in the contemporary illustrations?

Is it due to a bad artist, east end tart stereotypes or were there similar facial features ?

If there were what would it mean? Projection or transferance of somekind?

I'm thinking of the claim his womb focus meant a mother hatred. Did they look like his mother and if so, was he similar in appearance (a possible id factor)? That last question was somewhat rhetorical obviously.

[kensei]

If you're talking about drawings when it comes to Mary Kelly (since there are no photos of her intact face), there were different illustrations of her in the papers that looked nothing like each other. Only one I can think of could have been compared to Nichols and Chapman, while others tended to bolster the popular impression, that she was much more attractive than them and did not resemble them at all.

It's my impression that Jack had a general hatred of women rather than issues with his mother in particular, and that he didn't like to think of them as beautiful, i.e. that feminine beauty angered him. It seems significant that- Liz Stride excepted- the mutilations grew steadily worse as the victims grew better looking, culminating with Kelly who was completely destroyed and had her face torn off. True, he had unlimited time with her, but with Kate Eddowes before her time was extremely short and yet she was also very badly mutilated and was the first to have her face slashed, an aging but still charming face that probably would have been considered more attractive than Nichols or Chapman.

I know these comments might be controversial to some in that they might seem to objectify the victims down to their looks alone. I do not mean to offend anyone and have the utmost respect for each of them as a person, and I'm only reacting to the ways in which they have been described.

[Vigilantee]

Interesting idea. Though how could he guarantee a more attractive victim each time, his nights seem picked.

If you're talking about drawings when it comes to Mary Kelly (since there are no photos of her intact face), there were different illustrations of her in the papers that looked nothing like each other. Only one I can think of could have been compared to Nichols and Chapman, while others tended to bolster the popular impression, that she was much more attractive than them and did not resemble them at all.

It's my impression that Jack had a general hatred of women rather than issues with his mother in particular, and that he didn't like to think of them as beautiful, i.e. that feminine beauty angered him. It seems significant that- Liz Stride excepted- the mutilations grew steadily worse as the victims grew better looking, culminating with Kelly who was completely destroyed and had her face torn off. True, he had unlimited time with her, but with Kate Eddowes before her time was extremely short and yet she was also very badly mutilated and was the first to have her face slashed, an aging but still charming face that probably would have been considered more attractive than Nichols or Chapman.

I know these comments might be controversial to some in that they might seem to objectify the victims down to their looks alone. I do not mean to offend anyone and have the utmost respect for each of them as a person, and I'm only reacting to the ways in which they have been described.

[paul emmett]

Has anyone commented on the similarity in appearance between Nichols, Chapman and Kelly in the contemporary illustrations?

I think the similarities are among Nichols, Chapman, and Tabram, all of which look like mothers--Earth Mothers. So perhaps the different looks of the last three victims do suggest a "progression" in Jack.

Also, I wonder can there be hatred of women that doesn't have something to do with mother, or at least mother figures.

[Doctor X]

I do not know, Paul, they all seemed to be drunk and easy prey. I wonder if "attraction" had anything to do with it. I also am not certain that hatred of women has anything to with the killer's mother all of the time.

But that is all speculation.

--J.D.

[Vigilantee]

I'll try to attach some pics so you see what I mean.

[Vigilantee]

Here we are. I'm tempted to think the Kelly artist made a mistake and drew Chapman lol.

[paul emmett]

Hi, J.D. Drunk and easy, for sure. But my feeling is that the streets were awash with drunk and easy, and that JTR could--and did--take his pick. I don't want to say that hatred of women always has to do with the hater's mother: hell, he could be an orphan. I think it has to do with one's image of mother, which, in turn, has to be influenced by one's first object of attachment.

Hi, Vigilantee. Indeed, a most striking resemblence between those two pix. I don't see the Polly link as much, and I still hang on for Martha being of the same type. But I'd never seen the Chapman/MJK link before.

[Blackkat]

I certainly see a resemblance between them. Their noses are always fleshy - wider. Do I think it had to do with a hatred of his mother? Maybe - it is speculation, but when you look at the physical features and not just the drunk easy aspect, then it could appear that he consciously or subconsciously picked a few women that did look alike. If we were to take the artist sketch of MJK outside the door of her room, her face too, is shaped like the above victims.

One could speculate that Jack was progressing to prettier younger women - finally getting to the perfect point of his rage. Starting with the first victims and progressing to his "target" ( wide area here - take with a grain of salt) I don't know if he had a "certain target" (woman in mind that would be the perfect kill) or not. He did seem to have a lot of anger either that or just plain loony out of control psychotic episodes. Still makes me wonder if he had multiple personality disorder. Almost a Jekyl and Hyde

[Sam Flynn]

Going by their photographs (which logically resemble more closely what Jack would have seen, as against the crudely-wrought newspaper illustrations), I really can't see a facial resemblance between any of the victims. Even leaving their "portraits" aside, there is scarcely any commonality in their body types.

[Dan Norder]

I don't think Nichols looks much at all like Tabram or Chapman, and Kelly looks completely different in every illustration.

And if we're doing random comparisons again, I can find much better matches for Kelly than Nichols...

[ATTACH]1572[/ATTACH]

[paul emmett]

If we were to take the artist sketch of MJK outside the door of her room, her face too, is shaped like the above victims.

One could speculate that Jack was progressing to prettier younger women - finally getting to the perfect point of his rage.

Hi, BlackKat. I agree about the shape of their faces. And I agree with Sam that ALL the victims don't have the same "body type." But what I have been saying is that Tabram, Nichols and Chapman do have the same body type: short and fleshy--and full faced. So the face of Kelly, to me, makes an interesting addition.

If, as you suggest, he is progressing to what some(or most) feel is prettier, is he then angry at his own attraction to them? And would this anger drive him to mutilate the faces of those he was most attracted to?

Damn, while posting, I missed Dan's post.