Christopher Larman-

[Natalie Severn]

On February 11th 1962, The Sunday Newspapers carried large pictures of Mrs Jones,the landlady from Ingledene who said Hanratty had stayed at her B&B.
These pictures attracted the attention of a taxi driver Mr Larman,who had moved to Staines and was lodging with Mr and Mrs Dyos of Beehive Road Staines.Paul Foot,investigative journalist, in his book,"Who Killed Hanratty?" tells of when he interviewed Mr and Mrs Jack Dyos.They recalled Mr Larman immediately starting to talk about the picture in the Sunday Times of Mrs Jones and how the young man now standing trial may well have been the young man he met in Rhyl the previous August.He became worried about it and the very next day went to Staines Police Sttion and made astatement to Detective Inspector Robert Fields,then Chief of Staines C,.I.D.Mr Fields granted Mr Foot an interview on 25th September 1968.He told Foot,"I realized the urgency of the matter because the trial was on,so the following day I sent a message by telephone to Superintendent Acott at Bedford saying the statement had been made to me."
However, at about 11 am that Tuesday, Mr Sherrard rose to sum up the case for the defence. he was followed by Mr Swanwick,the long summing up by the judge and finally the verdict.There is nothing in the defence papers to indicate when Mr Acott or his representative gave Mr Larman"s name to the defence,or whether there was time,even at that late stage,to consider bending the trial rules to call Mr Larman to the witness box.The only reference to Larman is the signed statement he made to Mr Michael Oliver of Smellie and Co. a firm of inquiry agents in London employed by the defence after the trial to follow up information which came to their attention.Larman"s statement to Oliver isdated February 21st--the Wednesday after the trial ended.

[Natalie Severn]

Mr Larman"s statement:

On Sunday,18th February,1962,I saw photographs of James Hanratty,and I immediately remembered that I had seen him before and also the occasion where and when I had.
It was on the 22nd August 1961,at the junction of Kinmel Street,Rhyl and Bodford Street,Rhyl, atabout 7.30 pm,that this man stopped me and asked me where he could obtain bedand breakfast.I took him by the arm,and turned him round and directed him to the Windsor Hotel,which we could see from where we were standing,telling him that a guest house right opposite to this hotel would be able to help.It was in fact the guest house owned and run by Mrs Jones of Kinmel Street Rhyl.
He left me and went off in the direction I had pointed.I particularly remember this man because of his hair which was most outstanding being bronze and dark in parts.He was a shade taller than me,about 5ft 7 ins,dressed in a dark suit,neat and tidy.He spoke with a London accent.

Mr Larman was interviewed by Paul Foot on September 21st 1968,he told him he was summoned to the Strand offices of Smellie and Co. where he was shown a sheaf of a dozen photographs,from which he immediately picked out one of Hanratty.[Mr Foot points out here that Hanratty"s picture had by then been sprinkled all over the press though he also comments that when Mr Larman saw the photographs he was all the more certain it was the same man as he had seen in Rhyl the night before he left ie 22nd August 1961.Mr Larman was able to identify the date of this encounter as 22nd August,1961, for on that evening he was on a round of Rhyl public houses bidding goodbye to friends in Rhyl before leaving town the following day.The previous day,he remembered,he had drawn money from aa Post Office savings bank for the purpose of the pub crawl,and the Post Office savings book with the relevant entry was made available to Mr Oliver.

[NickB]

Sherrard did not produce Larman (or Walker) at the appeal because their statements "did not match Hanratty’s evidence" and "did not find support from Hanratty himself".

I don't know how you interpret this, but I take it to mean that Hanratty told Sherrard that this was not someone he had encountered in Rhyl. Bear in mind that they would not have turned down lightly any late evidence in their favour.

[Natalie Severn]

Was Mr Larman"s statement ever contacted by police?

Is Mr Larman or his evidence mentioned in the Nimmo Report to the Home Secretary? Mr Jenkins,Home Secretary at the time ,responded to the written question in the House of Commons on the "alibi"question from MP Mrs Joan Lester thus:The only witness from Rhyl who now appears to give direct confirmation of the alibi[to Mrs Jones"s claim of Hanratty staying at Ingledene ] is a lady..." and "None of the other[Rhyl witnesses [apart from Mrs Walker] claims a positive identification relating to a particular date"


Paul Foot states:Both these statements were inaccurate.Mr Larman"s statement gave"direct confirmation of an alibi" and claimed a Positive identification relating to a particular date."

So what happened? Well Mr Nimmo had tried to trace Mr Larman and got as far as Ranelagh Road Southall only to discover from his brother in law there that he had gone to Australia.In fact nobody contacted Mr Larman about his evidence between making his statement to the Inquiry Agent for the defence, Mr Oliver,in 1962 and speaking to Jean Justice and Paul Foot in Southall in September 1968.All Mr Larman received was a letter in Australia from his brother in law telling him about Mr Nimmo"s visit but that was the end of it.He wasnt told to do anything about it.
So Mr Jenkin"s assurances in the House of Commons that "Detective Nimmo....has made detailed and exhaustive investigations covering all possible lines of inquiry into the alibi" is in doubt.[---Mr Dutton,another Rhyl witness had also been dismissed or ignored ,by Mr Jenkins, this time though on the grounds that Hanratty did not give evidence at his trial that included a reference to an attempt to sell a gold watch on Rhyl High Street---which Mr Dutton had said the young man he had seen on August 23rd had done.]
Norma

[Natalie Severn]

Sherrard did not produce Larman (or Walker) at the appeal because their statements "did not match Hanratty’s evidence" and "did not find support from Hanratty himself".

I don't know how you interpret this, but I take it to mean that Hanratty told Sherrard that this was not someone he had encountered in Rhyl. Bear in mind that they would not have turned down lightly any late evidence in their favour.

This is what puzzles me Nick.Personally I suspect that Mrs Jones had given a poor impression to the defence as well as the prosecution---especially as she had been seen talking to Terry Evans during the break.But Christopher Larman had been down South in Staines since 23rd August so he could hardly be accused of being cahoots with Mrs Jones or Terry Evans surely?

[NickB]

Norma

According to the Telegraph Larman, on the eve of Hanratty's execution, frantically telephoned Fleet Street begging the newspapers to halt the hanging and telling them: "I'm sure it was that boy who asked me for lodgings in Rhyl."

Nick

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks for that link Nick.Its the best newspaper account I have read so far!

[Derrick]

Norma
It could not have helped James Hanratty personally but it was a complete disgrace that Douglas Nimmo, after given the remit of fully investigating the Rhyl abili did not interview either Trefor Dutton or Christopher Larman.

I understand that Mr Larman was in Australia. But it is not acceptible as an excuse for not at least sending an agent to talk to Mr Larman on behalf of DS Nimmo and under his instructions.

Mr Larman's testimony was of tantamount importance as far as Hanratty's alibi was concerned.

Therefore I cannot see how DS Nimmo's report can considered to be a full and thorough investigation into this most important aspect of the case.

As I have said b4 I am completely at a loss to try to fathom what could be lost by calling all known Rhyl witnesses at the first appeal. Sherrard only had to show that their testimony would have influenced the trial jury enough to order a retrial at worst. The appeal judges of 2002 found nothing to undermine the Rhyl alibi, nor could they. The judges fudged the issue by relying on the fact that the witnesses were not called at the first appeal and Mr Kleinmann's excuses, in 1968, over exact timings not fitting.

Derrick

[Natalie Severn]

Derrick,
I have no reason to doubt what you say here---up to a certain point.But the point I want to make is that unfortunately the Rhyl witnesses that had actually given evidence at the trial were made mincemeat of by Swanwick.The truth is they were notstrong witnesses---for whatever reason,and Terry Evans,however much he genuinely did not want to see Hanratty hang and believed Hanratty was not a man to have committed the A6 murder,Evans was a wide boy.So were some of the others from Rhyl.Its well known.
But Larman and Dutton? Well strictly speaking they came too late--the trial was all but over.
But I completely agree that during the appeal, particularly one such as this, surely Larman should have been properly interviewed? He went to the police in Staines just as the judge was summing up, so it seems to me that its a scandal that he wasnt called regarding the appeal---unless ----unless, his honesty, was in some way in question,---- like one or two of the other Rhyl witnesses and Sherrard was afraid of his evidence being demolished and therefore counter-productive? I must say it doesnt look like this but we were"nt around at the time to know who was straight and who not.
Best
Norma

[Victor]

According to the Telegraph Larman, on the eve of Hanratty's execution, frantically telephoned Fleet Street begging the newspapers to halt the hanging and telling them: "I'm sure it was that boy who asked me for lodgings in Rhyl."

Hi Nick,

It's interesting to note..."Mrs Jones was thrown by the production of Ingledene's lamentably incomplete visitors' book, and flustered when she dropped it in the witness box, causing loose pages to spill out." which contrasts markedly with Foot and Woffinden's 'Michael Hanratty will always rememeber that Swanwick dropped it'.

KR,
Vic.

[NickB]

Sherrard was afraid of his evidence being demolished and therefore counter-productive?

He was.

There was no point having Hanratty say he was directed by someone to Ingledene when it was dark, and Larman saying it was him when the sun was shining.

[Natalie Severn]

He was.

There was no point having Hanratty say he was directed by someone to Ingledene when it was dark, and Larman saying it was him when the sun was shining.

Nick,lets get this quite straight :It was not dark you are wrong and Hanratty was correct here.I am in Rhyl at the moment and I posted on Friday last at 7 pm [Sept.10th].The sun had just begun to set here and the whole town was very brightly illuminated because of the reflections from the huge bay that stretches from Prestatyn to Llandudno.I researched carefully the sunset situation for 23rd August for Rhyl and it is at 8.25 pm.
Now if you have ever watched sunset over a wide bay such as this,yes,the sun will often rapidly drop below the horizon as scheduled [ie at 8.25 on 23rd August ],but the town will then stay light for a good half to three quarter of an hour, after this .On Friday,the sun was supposed to have set around 7 though it shone a strong bright light for 10 minutes beyond that and then stayed very light until 7.30 and it was still"dusk" at 7.50 and certainly not "dark" and this is on 10th September, never mind 23rd August!
Best,
Norma

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Nick,

It's interesting to note..."Mrs Jones was thrown by the production of Ingledene's lamentably incomplete visitors' book, and flustered when she dropped it in the witness box, causing loose pages to spill out." which contrasts markedly with Foot and Woffinden's 'Michael Hanratty will always rememeber that Swanwick dropped it'.

KR,
Vic.

This though, is a completely different matter as to whether or not Mr Larman and Mrs Walker were describing the effect of sunlight on Hanrtty"s hair at the time.
Norma

[NickB]

Nick,lets get this quite straight :It was not dark you are wrong and Hanratty was correct here.

When did Hanratty say it was light when he arrived at Ingledene?

Although the bus was scheduled to arrive at 8.19, Hanratty spent some time looking for accommodation and said it was dark by the time he ended up there.

Also it is possible the bus was delayed. Hanratty said he thought the bus left Liverpool at around 7.30, making it about 90 minutes late. (Thanks to Derrick for alerting me to that.)

This though, is a completely different matter as to whether or not Mr Larman and Mrs Walker were describing the effect of sunlight on Hanrtty"s hair at the time.
Norma

Walker said she saw the man “when it was dark”, and this was supposed to be before Larman saw him.


Moreover ...

Timing was not the only reason Hanratty rejected these people as witnesses. Sherrard said: “the statements in other respects did not find support from Hanratty”.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Nick,

When did Hanratty say it was light when he arrived at Ingledene?

He said "It was getting dark"----not "it was dark"

Also it is possible the bus was delayed. Hanratty said he thought the bus left Liverpool at around 7.30, making it about 90 minutes late. (Thanks to Derrick for alerting me to that.)

I doubt very much that the bus was delayed by an hour and a half Nick.Nor did Hanratty mention that it was delayed .I would like to see your source showing where Hanratty said he thought the bus left at about 7.30.because my reference says that he thought it left in the evening or late evening -which is not a specific time except for it being after the close of day.

Walker said she saw the man “when it was dark”, and this was supposed to be before Larman saw him.

The following contradiction needs to be considered in the light of all this : Mr Larman saw him "just as it was getting dark".Mr Larman said this was about 7.30.Well Nick it simply could not have been 7.30 ---so he appears to be mistaken about the time he saw Hanratty----if it was "just getting dark" because on 23rd August in Rhyl it would not have been "getting dark" until after sunset which was at 8.25 pm. And it would have been dusk between then and until well after 9pm.This would be the time which most people refer to as "getting dark" and the time Mr Larman must have seen Hanratty -Larman was in the process of buying the rounds at the local pubs on 22nd August before leaving Rhyl for Staines .He showed police officers in Staines his post office savings book to prove the day and time he had drawn out enough money to cover buying them rounds of drinks.

Where does it say Margaret Walker saw Hanratty before Christopher Larman saw him?

timing was not the only reason Hanratty rejected these people as witnesses. Sherrard said: “the statements in other respects did not find support from Hanratty”.

Can you also point me to where it says Hanratty rejected their statements Nick? Do you mean to say he rejected all the statements because there were quite a few in total?
Thanks,
Norma