Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Graffiti in the East End (e.g. Goulston St.)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Graffiti in the East End (e.g. Goulston St.)

    The Goulston St. graffiti (“The Juwes are not the men….”) often thought to be a message left by JtR on the night of the so-called “double event” isn’t one of my main interests. In recent months I haven’t had much opportunity to follow the message boards either, so, it may well be that someone else has already posted the following. If that is the case, my apologies.
    The question has often been aired on the message boards about how common graffiti was in those areas. I recently found a couple of interesting references in the booklet “Into the Abyss” by W.J. Fishman. In it, Fishman takes a short look at the life and work of G.R. Sims (the well-known journalist and playwright who is perhaps best known for his maudlin “It is Christmas Day in the Workhouse” (1879)). Sims was also renowned for his “massive record in social realism, contained in his three volume survey of Living London in 1906.”
    In two of the excerpts which Fishman draws from that work, there are implications about the frequency of graffiti in the East End. One case specifically mentions Wentworth Street which, as we know, intersects with Goulston St. just a few yards from where the graffiti was found. “On every side (of Wentworth St.) un-English faces, un-English wares, un-English writings on the walls….” Later, he adds the following excerpt; “If you would understand the immortal agony of Jewry, go into the East End colony…. Its humour, the very Yiddish jargon itself, which is scrawled on the walls….”
    For those of you familiar with Martin Fido’s analysis of the source of the Goulston St. graffiti (dissatisfaction with a product purchased close by) Fishman provides an additional comment of interest. This refers to Jews vendors in the same area who “long after the shadows have long retired in the Ghetto, they (the Jewish vendors) are still vouching by their own lives on the kindness of the Shem Yishoroch (God) to Israel for the quality of their wares.”
    Of course, “Living London” was published 18 years after the Ripper year of 1888, but there is no reason to assume that any basic element of the street scenes described in it had changed significantly in the years between.
    Hope this sheds some light on the question of the ubiquity of graffiti out East.
    PB
    P. M. Boggs
    Glasgow G38RB Scotland

  • #2
    Fishman

    Hello PM. Thanks for posting this. The GSG is still a thorn in the side of Ripperologists of every kind. I still vacillate regarding its import.

    Yes, Fishman is a good read--that includes all his books. Have you tackled his "East End Jewish Radicals 1875-1914"? It's super.

    Another author like Fishman is Rudolph Rocker. His "London Years" is thought provoking.

    Cheers.
    Lynn Cates

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi P.M.; welcome to Casebook. (Hi Lynn )

      I've wondered about the ubiquity of graffiti in the East End and asked about it when the subject was touched upon in a Rippercast.
      Have you possibly found any LVP photographs of grafitti?

      I can only think of one well-known Whitechapel photo that shows any... though I suppose if it was ubiquitous it wasn't viewed as worth photographing.

      Best regards,
      Archaic

      Comment


      • #4
        It's an interesting topic and I think one of the points worth some consideration is that in the modern world, graffiti is quite often written with either texta/permanent whiteboard marker, and spray paint - neither of which were in existence in the Victorian era.

        Now obviously paint or permanent marker is going to stay on walls that are subject to daily wear and tear and weather conditions a lot longer than, say....chalk. A graffiti message written in chalk on a wall in a main thoroughfare of the East End, in wet weather particularly, will not last long before it is smudged away or covered over.

        So it might be a reasonable suggestion that graffiti in the East End was relatively commonplace, but it simply was removed a lot faster than modern day graffiti if it was on outside walls, and more out of sight from the public on interior walls, and was therefore not as noticeable?

        Cheers,
        Adam.

        Comment


        • #5
          Adam,

          I found chalk drawings, obviously made by children, in Puma Court in September 2008.

          They were still there, albeit faded, when I attendened the Conference in October 2009.

          Likewise during the first London Job where we found some chalk on the back of the Duke Of Wellington Pub in Toynbee Street. Still there just under 12 months later.

          Monty
          Monty

          https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

          Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

          http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

          Comment


          • #6
            PMB -

            One little note of caution re your quote, although I must admit that I have not read the book it is taken from and so I may well be barking up the wrong proverbial tree if further context rules what I am about to suggest out; however, I do not think it is impossible that the 'un-English writing on the walls' may refer not literally to graffiti but perhaps to the writing on shopfronts serving, for example, Jewish goods? It is sad that certain attitudes don't seem to have changed a great deal throughout history and I can almost hear a modern-day racist complaining about 'foreign names everywhere' and perhaps referring to, for example, the shop-window stickers of a Halal butcher rather than any 'foreign' vandalism.

            In fact, when we take into mind the somewhat ad-hoc nature of many business in the area in the LVP (ala Matthew Packer's fruit-selling business, albeit he was not foreign, obviously) then there may have been a fairly thin line between graffiti and cheap advertising.

            At the risk of making it sound like I live in some kind of quaint 'Cider with Rosie' style timewarp, I can think of a few chalked hopscotch boards in playgrounds around my area that have lasted a decent time through some pretty inclement Welsh weather, so I would second Monty that it does not necessarily follow that chalk graffiti would necessarily not be long-lasting enough to be noted. Which, it has to be said, it doesn't seem to have been in any LVP photographs I have ever come across.

            Comment


            • #7
              Trevor,

              There are Edwardian photographs of Berner Street with chalk writing clearly visible.

              I think I have also seen Victorian images of the same.

              Monty
              Monty

              https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

              Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

              http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi,

                Just an interesting aside, although it is about graffiti.

                Dew mentions in his memoirs that the name 'Jack the Ripper' could be seen scrawled on walls before it actually appeared on the letters.

                Now, we all know that Dew had the greatest memory in history but I suppose it is possible that whoever wrote the letters (and it certainly weren't Jack) they might well have seen the name and thought it would make a great signature.

                Even if we discount Dew's recollections, it does show that graffiti was fairly prevalent at that time.

                Oh just thought of another one. The day after Polly's murder, some bright spark scrawled, 'The murder was done here,' on the gates of Barber's. Jimmy Mumford got seriously pi**ed off about it, quite naturally. That was when the police were suggesting that Polly was killed in Winthrop Street and dragged around the corner into Buck's Row.

                There must have been a lot of people walking around with chalk in their pockets.

                Much love

                Janie

                xxxx
                I'm not afraid of heights, swimming or love - just falling, drowning and rejection.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Monty View Post
                  Trevor,

                  There are Edwardian photographs of Berner Street with chalk writing clearly visible.

                  I think I have also seen Victorian images of the same.

                  Monty
                  As I said Neil, not in any that I have seen - I have no doubt that there are numerous photos from the period that yourself, Rob etc have come across of which I yet have no knowledge; and have no problem in doffing my cap to such knowledge. I have no agenda to push here; in fact I don't tend to believe in the GSG being the work of the killer so if anything I am somewhat arguing against myself!

                  Do you have an opinion on my interpretation of 'un-English writing on the walls' by the way?

                  Jane - the alleged 'fifteen more and I give myself up', or similar, supposed to have been written on the shutters at Hanbury Street, while untrue, would also seem to suggest that the newspapers expected their readers to at least be familiar with the concept or 'graffiti', even if they may not have termed it as such.
                  Last edited by tnb; 06-21-2010, 05:11 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Trevor,

                    1909 Berner Street, note the shutters.

                    Dorset Street, ok quite a few years later but note low down to the left.
                    Attached Files
                    Monty

                    https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for those Neil - had seen the Dorset St one before (from Leonard Matters, yes?) but the Berner Street one is very interesting. Is that the south side, out of interest, or further along the northern side?

                      Can't argue with that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi all,
                        The one thing that has always crossed my mind about the GSG is that if it was a insult scrawled by unhappy punter or someone who was anti jewish,
                        wouldnt it have made sense to write it on the outside of the wall on the street.
                        Also I can remember a chalk drawing of a face on the wall of the entrance to where Tabram was murdered.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                          Hello PM. Thanks for posting this. The GSG is still a thorn in the side of Ripperologists of every kind. I still vacillate regarding its import.

                          Yes, Fishman is a good read--that includes all his books. Have you tackled his "East End Jewish Radicals 1875-1914"? It's super.

                          Another author like Fishman is Rudolph Rocker. His "London Years" is thought provoking.

                          Cheers.
                          Lynn Cates
                          Lynn: This is my first Fishman work, but I plan on taking a further look. Your comments have given me added incentive.
                          P. M. Boggs
                          Glasgow G38RB Scotland

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            TNB: You point about the possibility of the text referring to store signs, advertising, etc. is a well taken one. That is why I hedged my bet by saying “there are implications” The original “Living London” texts are – unfortunately – too ambiguous to warrant taking a firm stand.
                            P. M. Boggs
                            Glasgow G38RB Scotland

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Spyglass,

                              The GSG wasn't actually scrawled, but written in a neat schoolboy hand, in rather small letters, less than an inch high. That was a very controlled piece of graffito. It was written on the door jamb at the entrance and not inside, so it would have been visible to any passers by.

                              It always really annoys me when you see in films and even in one newspaper sketch of the day, the message scrawled in six inch high letters on the wall inside the entrance!

                              Hugs

                              Jane

                              xxx
                              I'm not afraid of heights, swimming or love - just falling, drowning and rejection.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X