Elizabeth Short (The Black Dahlia)

[Archbug]

Hello casebookers,

Thought I’d take the leap and start my first thread.

After seeing the interest expressed in this case on other threads I wondered why there was not one specifically for the murder of Elizabeth Short. (‘Possibly there was one before ‘the great server crash of 2008’ ….and apologies if there is a thread lying in some place I have been unable to permeate)

The interest expressed is not my only motivation for beginning this thread. I am finding this a difficult case to ascertain facts on. I believe there are 2 main contributing factors to this; The sensationialism relating to the case resulting in a wealth of questionably researched ‘factual’ publishings; and the nondisclosure of material by the LA police (and apparently also loss) due to the case not being officially closed.
It would be great to hear from anyone with a passing interest to those more informed.

I have particular interest in the story of a Mr & Mrs Barnes checking into a hotel shortly before Elizabeth Short was discovered. The Mr of this partnership apparently requested a bathtub. Much has been made of this story. In particular a theory about an ed ‘burns’ (I think it was, forgive me if I’m mistaken this is off the top of my head) being this man and some rather far-fetched story involving horses……anyway I am really struggling to discover where many of these stories were originally reported from, mostly due to lack of time and, although this makes me look lazy, would be grateful to if anyone had already done the legwork and could help me out!

Many thanks

[Granger]

Hello casebookers,

Thought I’d take the leap and start my first thread.

After seeing the interest expressed in this case on other threads I wondered why there was not one specifically for the murder of Elizabeth Short. (‘Possibly there was one before ‘the great server crash of 2008’ ….and apologies if there is a thread lying in some place I have been unable to permeate)

The interest expressed is not my only motivation for beginning this thread. I am finding this a difficult case to ascertain facts on. I believe there are 2 main contributing factors to this; The sensationialism relating to the case resulting in a wealth of questionably researched ‘factual’ publishings; and the nondisclosure of material by the LA police (and apparently also loss) due to the case not being officially closed.
It would be great to hear from anyone with a passing interest to those more informed.

I have particular interest in the story of a Mr & Mrs Barnes checking into a hotel shortly before Elizabeth Short was discovered. The Mr of this partnership apparently requested a bathtub. Much has been made of this story. In particular a theory about an ed ‘burns’ (I think it was, forgive me if I’m mistaken this is off the top of my head) being this man and some rather far-fetched story involving horses……anyway I am really struggling to discover where many of these stories were originally reported from, mostly due to lack of time and, although this makes me look lazy, would be grateful to if anyone had already done the legwork and could help me out!

Many thanks

Hi Archbud: I'm sure our SDReid will take up the challenge.

There was in deed a Black Dahlia thread, but....no more!

[sdreid]

Hi Julie and Granger,

Yes, I think there were at least a couple of Dahlia threads before the apocalypse.

I believe the Ed Burns business is some labored theory about some guy who supposedly knew Short and committed suicide a while after the murder ala MJD. There are far better theories to explain things in my view especially since I'm not sure that Burn's existence has even been proven. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know anything about a horse but nothing would surprise me in this case.

Regarding a couple asking for a bathtub in a hotel, I'd suspect that happens about every day.

[belinda]

I was watching a programme about this the other night. What I wonder about is what happened to her things?
Have the police still got them,did they give them back to the family?

And that letter sent to the Police in the programme they dismissed it as a hoax but the things sent actually belonged to her

[sdreid]

Hi Belinda,

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the evidence has all been purloined. The item that could still be useful is probably the address book and I think it's missing. Neither would I be so quick to declare it a hoax.

I would guess that one set of her clothing is on her in her grave.

I'm not sure if remaining personal items were returned to her family but I haven't heard about it if it was.
Sorry I'm not more help.

[Chris George]

I have particular interest in the story of a Mr & Mrs Barnes checking into a hotel shortly before Elizabeth Short was discovered. The Mr of this partnership apparently requested a bathtub. Much has been made of this story. In particular a theory about an ed ‘burns’ (I think it was, forgive me if I’m mistaken this is off the top of my head) being this man and some rather far-fetched story involving horses……anyway I am really struggling to discover where many of these stories were originally reported from, mostly due to lack of time and, although this makes me look lazy, would be grateful to if anyone had already done the legwork and could help me out!

Many thanks

Hi Julie

I always like to have a bathtub when I check into a hotel. I sincerely hope that won't make me into a suspect!

Good work starting a thread on the Black Dahlia case, an endlessly fascinating crime.

Chris

[Cap'n Jack]

I'm reading the FBI files on this case as well, they do still have original material from the case, including a photograph of the original suspect found in Elizabeth's effects, someone they describe as a 'psychoneurotic' whose wife had committed suicide, after their child had been killed, by one of them, the report is unclear there.
The FBI still have some fingerprints as well.
What surprised me is the reluctance of the Social Security Administration of the US to release data on Elizabeth Short to the FBI in 1947 to help them solve the brutal murder.
Hoover was hopping mad at 'em, and felt, quite rightly, that their reluctance to help in the case, prevented the apprehension of the killer.
And I'm only on part one.

[sdreid]

Hi AP,

Did you see the photo? Does it have a name to go along with it? There was a big crowd of suspects.

[Cap'n Jack]

The photo isn't in the files, but it is still in the FBI records.
As I said I'm just starting to read these extensive files, but I reckon the name will be there somewhere.
Do you know anything about the case of Paula Weldon, of Fennington, Vermont?

What I liked was the advice of Hoover's most senior agent in late 1947 concerning the Black Dahlia case:
'We should get out of here,' he strongly advised.

[belinda]

AP Do they still have her suitcase or any of her other possesions

[sdreid]

I know nothing about the Paula Welden disappearance in Vermont other than what I just looked up on Google. Regarding Dahlia suspects from New England, I guess the main one would be George Knowlton who was killed in a car crash in 1962. His daughter claimed that she had witnessed him murder Short but her tale doesn't really fit the evidence very well.

[sdreid]

In the early 1960s, actors Jack Webb and Tom Neal were planning to make a movie about the Dahlia case but it was sidelined when Neal was arrested for killing his own wife, Gail, in 1965.

[dougie]

In the early 1960s, actors Jack Webb and Tom Neal were planning to make a movie about the Dahlia case but it was sidelined when Neal was arrested for killing his own wife, Gail, in 1965.

That is almost humourous in a sick way........maybe he got carried away with the acting "thing?"
regards

[sdreid]

That could be Dougie.

He was very indirectly connected with the Dahlia case. Franchot Tone was an "acquaintance" of Elizabeth Short. In 1951, Neal beat the crap out of Tone over a mutual "love interest" named Barbara Payton. Ms. Payton was an aspiring actress who was later arrested for prostitution.

Tom Neal wasn't a half bad actor. He starred in the film noir classic Detour in 1945.

[Cap'n Jack]

You'll have to grit your teeth on this one.
Bear with me.
In 1947 Hoover made a big deal of the social security number and record of Elizabeth Short; and it is generally thought that this was in an effort to supply essential background on the murder case and victim.
However this appears not to be the case, for in 1947 shortly after the murder Hoover began receiving a series of letters from someone who claimed to know the identity of the killer, claiming that the killer has taken their own social security number and embroiled them in some cheap scams where they had lost money. The writer claimed that the killer was a handsome Hollywod bit player who had promised them a part in a movie.
How strange is it then, that in 1949 a handsome Hollywood bit player, named Jeff Connors, was actually arrested for the murder of Elizabeth Short?
And Hoover started banging on about social security numbers again?