how did mary pronounce her name?

[Mary_Jane_Kelly]

hi all

there seems some confusion to wether mjk's name was mary or marie. well maby mjk promouced her name like the famouse music hall star marie lloyd, she pronounced it marry.

it sounds like a reasonable idea, given that people could think her name was either mary or marie...


---MJK---

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi MJK

Marie Lloyd's original name was Matilda Wood. No-one knows why she chose Lloyd as her stage surname (perhaps it was fashionable to feign Welsh connections back then, hmmmmmm) but we do know that she chose the name Marie because it sounded 'classy' (hmmmmmm again).

It was pronounced Mah-Ree (long 'a' Cockney style)

[Nothing to see]

Idon't think MJK would have cared what you called her as long as you paid.

[Sam Flynn]

How "big" was Marie Lloyd in 1888, though? She'd only adopted the name - with its rather idiosyncratic pronunciation of "Maah-ree" - a couple of years earlier, having made her debut in 1885 - she was then a "child star" of 15, working predominantly in the West End. (A search of adverts in the Times confirms this, and indicates that Marie Lloyd was hardly "star billing" in the mid/late 1880s.) According to Dagmar Kift's The Victorian Music Hall, Lloyd seems to have been somewhat shocked that her style didn't go down too well with East End audiences in the early years of her career.

Although Marie Lloyd's rise to popularity was rather swift, I'm inclined to believe that, owing to the timescales, it's unlikely that "our" Marie (Jeanette) had based her pseudonym, and/or its pronunciation, on her to-be illustrious namesake.

[Nothing to see]

How "big" was Marie Lloyd in 1888, though? She'd only adopted the name - with its rather idiosyncratic pronunciation of "Maah-ree" - a couple of years earlier, having made her debut in 1885 - she was then a "child star" of 15, working predominantly in the West End. (A search of adverts in the Times confirms this, and indicates that Marie Lloyd was hardly "star billing" in the mid/late 1880s.) According to Dagmar Kift's The Victorian Music Hall, Lloyd seems to have been somewhat shocked that her style didn't go down too well with East End audiences in the early years of her career.

Although Marie Lloyd's rise to popularity was rather swift, I'm inclined to believe that, owing to the timescales, it's unlikely that "our" Marie (Jeanette) had based her pseudonym, and/or its pronunciation, on her to-be illustrious namesake.

Well, if you say so, then it must be true.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

If we believe, that Mary Jane Kelly (or whatever her real name was!) really was born in Ireland and had lived in Wales as a kid;

Play it again, Sam!

And if Peter Birchwood is on the right tracks, i'ts pretty shooah, that MJK had got some bostonian undertones too!

All the best
Jukka

[dixon9]

Just listening to a Ripper podcast(MJK part 2)
and talking of names,can anyone tell me why she did not keep her husband's name?In Barnett's statement he stated MJK had told him she was lawfully married to Davis/Davies

thanks for any help

Dixon9
still learning

[CountessHappyBunny]

sign o' the times

hey all -

it seems like back in the day, most people had several variations on their name, maybe because unlike today there was no standard ID and so many transactions were verbal rather than written.

if we were simply going off what people call me after seeing or hearing my name, i would be mary, marie, murphy, maria, murray, etc.

i imagine her name was pronounced "Mary" as we would pronounce it today (albeit with an accent of some kind). i also believe, based on the few things she seemed to tell others about herself, that maybe she affected the 'marie jeanette' moniker to give the impression of 'class'.

it seems she told a few people the story about going to france soon after her arrival in london - i always wondered if she started referring to herself as marie jeanette around that time.

as always, just an impression, so please feel free to refute.

[anna]

I've always felt that MJK might do a music hall style turn in the pubs on sing-song nights,would have boosted her ego and maybe bring in a few extra coins.
The McCarthy's had a link to Lloyd..didn't we say they drank with her at times and she helped one of their daughters onto the stage..if I remember correctly...although obviously not drinking with her at 15,but do we know how long they had actually known her for?
Because I'm thinking that with this link to Lloyd,and McCarthy's connection,in the landlord sense
of the word, to Kelly,the name Mah-ree might have reached MJK's ears this way?

Just an idea !!

[Sam Flynn]

Because I'm thinking that with this link to Lloyd,and McCarthy's connection,in the landlord sense,the name Mah-ree might have reached MJK's ears this way?

As I said a while back, it rather depends on how "big" Marie Lloyd was by 1888, having only made her debut as a "child star" in 1885, and then primarily in the West End. From 1885-1888, however, we can be reasonably certain that Mary Kelly was based in the East End.