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  • Elizabeth Stride and JtR

    Dave Yost, Elizabeth Stride and JtR: The Life and Death of the Reputed Third Victim. (Jefferson NC: McFarland, 2008). ISBN-10: 0786433183; ISBN-13: 978-0786433186 (paperback).

    I see there is a blog set up for this book, but we usually talk about new books here, don’t we? I hate making decisions. I’ll talk about it here.

    I was looking forward to this book because I’m an admirer of Yost’s work, in particular the book he wrote with Alexander Chisholm and Christopher-Michael DiGrazia in 2002, The News from Whitechapel: JtR in the Daily Telegraph, but I was rather disappointed in this one.

    It is a slim volume and a great deal of it simply contains reprints of the inquest testimony and newspaper accounts that we have all read many times before, or can easily obtain from other sources. And, in a specialized book such as this, do we really need to read, yet again, of events such as the Phoenix Park murders, the Fenian bombings in London, and the Trafalgar Square riots? This is all pretty well-trodden ground.

    There are a few odd statements in the book; for example, early on (p. 22), Buck’s Row is described as “lying several blocks north of Whitechapel Road”. And, on the same page, Yost states that the Shadwell Dry Dock fire of August 30 could be seen even as far away as Whitechapel. Well, I guess. As we know from the testimony of John Pizer, it could be seen at least as far as Holloway. There are also more spelling mistakes and typos (Macnaughten, Riper) than one would expect from this author and publisher.

    His central thesis (as you might suspect from the subtitle) is that JtR did not murder Stride. (This will be welcome news to the supporters of this theory currently having at it with the non-supporters on another thread.) On Yost’s analysis of the evidence, he concludes that BS man killed Liz, “Lipski” was directed at Pipeman, and Mrs. Mortimer heard the “heavy measured tramp” of BS man making his escape north on Berner and then west through Batty’s Gardens. Obviously some contentious stuff here that some readers might find to be based more on speculation than fact.

    The strong points of the book are Yost’s detailed description of Stride's life and his analysis of the timing of events on Berner Street in the hour prior to Diemschutz’s discovery of her body. For aficionados, those alone may be sufficient reasons to buy it.

  • #2
    Hi Maurice ,

    Many thanks for a very ernest review of my book (and yes I do mean that).

    And thanks for the praises of NFW - I'm sure I can speak on behalf of Alex and Christopher-Michael when I say that we're glad you enjoyed it. (One thing that might not be generally known about NFW is that it was used as a text book at George Mason University.)

    One thing that some might not realize is that NFW was ultimately permitted (after some persuasion) to exceed the publisher's max word limit by 30,000 (for 120,000 total), because of the vastly extensive amount of material involved, and sadly we still removed quite a lot to get to that limit; (it was very difficult for me, as one example, to remove as much on Pizer as I had).

    The main text of the Stride book, on the other hand, max'd out their word limit. So...regarding it being a "slim volume," there's nothing I can say or could've done about that. (Although the original manuscript did have 5 appendices in addition to the main text, but the publishers felt that that particular information was very well sufficiently covered within the main text and so it ultimately got reduced to just the one appendix with monetary conversion. The excluded appendices information is located on the new pages of my web site, http://jfiles00.tripod.com/)

    It was (and still is) embarrassing for me to have read the typos you mentioned after I got my copies of the book, especially considering how many times I and the publishers read, reviewed, and corrected the manuscript and proofs. (I did learn that the proofs were actually a re-type, and one typo that nearly horrified me was reading "For 6 decades" instead of the original "For more than 115 years" - I sent about 6 pages of corrections back to the publisher. Just goes to show that humans do make mistakes.)

    When I wrote the book, I did take a chance over receiving criticism from those who commonly post on the message boards, regarding some of the "well-trodden" information, but having read my book, you must have surely read the introduction, wherein I clearly state up front that "It is an attempt to bring to light in a single volume as much information as possible about a specific victim" as well as "the story is never complete without the background. The history through which the victim traveled, giving a better view of what she and the general population experienced, read, heard, and discussed." That of course includes the well-known info. As I'm sure you have guessed, this book was not written only and specifically for the "Ripperologist," who talks JtR nearly every day, but for everyone: from the avid aficionados, to "newbies" of the case, to those with merely a passing interest. For that - I beg your indulgence.

    I must especially thank you for the primary compliment you gave it:
    "The strong points of the book are Yost’s detailed description of Stride's life and his analysis of the timing of events on Berner Street in the hour prior to Diemschutz’s discovery of her body. For aficionados, those alone may be sufficient reasons to buy it."

    dyost

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    • #3
      Listen, Dave, you would know far better than I the difficulties of dealing with publishers, and I'm sure they are many. Despite all that, you are a talented researcher, with a deft turn of phrase, who has added much to, in your words, "this study of mutual interest".

      I just wish that publishers could make up their minds if they are directing a book at the novice or the specialist. If the latter, then most of the background info can safely be omitted: a very successful example would be Chris Scott's Will the Real Mary Kelly....? and other books of that ilk. But I imagine you have to do more or less what the publisher asks. Anyway, you are the published author, not I. Criticism is easy; creation is hard.

      Thanks for your efforts, and I look forward to reading your work in the future.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by The Grave Maurice View Post
        Listen, Dave, you would know far better than I the difficulties of dealing with publishers, and I'm sure they are many. Despite all that, you are a talented researcher, with a deft turn of phrase, who has added much to, in your words, "this study of mutual interest".

        ...

        Thanks for your efforts, and I look forward to reading your work in the future.
        Hi Maurice,

        Many thanks for your very kind words - greatly appreciated!

        Working with publishers can have its...issues. Some of their re-writes I simply accepted as "eh, whatever" because it did not change the meaning or intent, while others I was very emphatic about keeping in place as best as possible. (Although, I do wish I could've seen the final "re-write" before the proofs were created - might've saved a few headaches.)

        But the best publisher I've worked with so far dealt with my children's book; (yeah I wrote a children's book which everyone from children to parents to teachers and librarians seems to enjoy, Raccoon Learns a Lesson: The Adventures of Rabbit and Squirrel.)

        As for well-studied -vs- non... type of audience, you'll have to blame me for that one and there were many times I almost didn't complete it, because of that dilemma. But I kept going anyway, with only 2 thoughts in mind: 1) I hope people enjoy reading it (which is why I did it as a continual narrative) and 2) I hope people get a lot of information out of it.

        Again, many thanks for your kind words.

        dyost

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        • #5
          Has anyone else read this one...I am hoping to hear other reactions to the book.

          Sandra
          Honestly Inspector Abberline, it was Joe from down the street I tell ya.

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