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  • Jacks Day Job?

    I know many people dismiss the butcher or “Leather Apron” idea for Jack the Ripper but quite possibly it’s the one that makes the most sense. Once we throw away this Bogyman idea of the 1888 Whitechapel murderer and think of how this person might realistically fit into the picture then we get a more realistic idea of the killer. My theory is below and of course it may as well be totally wrong, but I feel it’s the one that makes the most sense. Your thoughts on this are welcome as are your theories on “Jack’s” occupation or trade.

    (This post is rather long so bare with me)
    (Also off topic, I am new to posting on this site, but have been using Casebook and other sources to study the events of the Whitechapel murders for some time.)

    Whitechapel seems to have had within its district several small slaughterhouses and or number of butcher shops to feel the people of the area. Now this was in the age before reliable refrigeration like we have today and slaughterhouses/butcher shops could not waste time in slaughtering the animals as well as cutting up the meat to sell/ship it before some sort of spoilage might occurred or at the very least the quality of the product would suffer which might hurt sales.

    It sold be noticed that with so many slaughterhouses in the area poor cuts of meat would not sell well if at all, again affecting the bottom line (sales). The result is that these butchers or meat cutters had to work a lot more swiftly and accurately then many do today - being a butcher in those days was as much an art as it was a craft and many butchers had honed their knife skills to almost machine like performances. This in my opinion would explain the "surgical" like appearance of the Ripper's work. Begin able to work quickly as well as in the dark notes of someone who has done this type of work with his hands hundreds of times and can probably do this with his eyes closed if he wished. Also since this the 1880’s and in Whitechapel (a poor neighborhood) then this person is also used to working with few tools and most likely just with one good knife.

    Local butchers and meatcutters also must have had a good working knowledge Whitechapel's streets and back alleys, so as to deliver products to their regular customers quickly and effectively (again before any spoilage can occurred). I am of the belief that our suspect was not so much an owner of one of theses butcher shops but a worker or an apprentice at one - Someone who did lots of the slaughtering and the gutting of the animals at the shop as well as doing most of the deliveries to the regular cliental. Someone who knew the neighborhood very well and waked its streets just about everyday, this would also give our “Jack” lots of time to see the policemen on their daily routes as well as those woman of loose character who would eventually become his victims.

    I also believe that if this were a well-known local meatcutter/butcher worker who might of also did meat deliveries in the area, then people would think little of him having at least some blood on his clothing - even in the off hours of work, since people who lived and worked in the Whitechapel area at this time were known to not be so keen on hygiene.

    Also I further believe he worked mostly with Pigs at this slaughterhouse. The reason is because pig organs are closer to that of human organs, so close in fact scientists today are experimenting to breed cloned pigs for organs to transplant to Humans someday (Example: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/08/16/pig.clones/). Please note that the torso of a human and that of a pig are very similar with all the organs falling into the same place (even ones like the kidneys and liver). Internally the placement of these organs is very similar on most mammals but the difference between that of pigs and humans is almost nonexistent - even the sizes are the same or in some pigs very similar.

    Another added effect of working in a slaughterhouse is the fact of how one can become desensitized to blood, gore and death since on some level it’s dealt with everyday. After a while a person who would have acted violently towards to animals as a child could let those feelings grow as an adult and even think of those he didn’t like as little more then pigs for the slaughter.

    Well that’s my leather apron/slaughterhouse theory, I am not married to it but it’s the only one so far that fits well in my eyes…

    Now I know that the police at one time (at least at the start of the case) had the same theory, but then later they dropped it - maybe someone can fill me into the real reason why it was dropped. I currently think it may be due to the fact of media influenced the case and thinking by time (winter 1888 and early 1889) made the Whitechapel murderer into some type of super killer (or Bogyman) and people either felt it was a raving madman or an evil genius - skipping over the everyday working man type completely. Funny it seems that this media influence from 1888 has had a sort of lasting effect till today and may in fact have gotten stronger over time. Although at this point I am getting off topic…
    Sometimes all you learn in defeat is that you have been defeated - Anonymous

  • #2
    Hi Nemesis Legion
    Welcome,Intriguing first post.My theory is that Jack was a cats meat man named James Hardiman whose mother,Harriet lived in and ran the cats meat shop at 29 Hanbury Street.
    Catch me if you can i'm the cats meat man!
    All the best
    Rob

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    • #3
      I think he was a...

      ...furrier's assistant....job given to him by family so he could be "watched over"...
      Cheers,
      cappuccina

      "Don't make me get my flying monkeys!"

      Comment


      • #4
        "...furrier's assistant....job given to him by family so he could be 'watched over'..."

        Funny enough I've read this in another post, something about the reasons why Jacky didn't kill in October - because he might have been a furriers (<-??not sure on proper name here?? - much lulz tho) are most busy that month. It was a good point but suggested half heartedly ... makes me wonder how many if any furriers (<-??there is that word again??) where in that area?
        Sometimes all you learn in defeat is that you have been defeated - Anonymous

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        • #5
          Hi NL, I am the one who wrote about that...

          ...I had a great uncle who was a furrier in NYC, he had his own business, and it is true that October was, by far, the busiest month, always...

          I have suggested my theory a few times, and no one takes me seriously, but I don't mind...

          I think it is quite plausible that Jack was employed by family who felt sorry for him because he was so mentally ill, and wanted to keep him busy and "keep an eye on him" at the same time.

          Being a part of the fur business would explain a lot of things about these murders:

          1. How a seemingly poorer man hand an astrkhan-trimmed coat. My great-uncle and his staff always wore fur trimmed pieces around NYC; they were "walking advertisements. They ALWAYS were dressed nicely, even to just go out for 5 minutes. My great uncle always wore his fur vest and Greek Fisherman's cap made of fur...

          2. Many furriers were Jewish, and it was a close-knit family trade; people looked out for each other and helped each other, so Jack could have been "hidden" in such a family for quite a while until he became too psychotic...

          3. A furrier's knife is easily concealable, wickedly sharp, and could have been used to murder and inflict all of the woulds that Jack inflicted...additional furrier's tools could also have been used...Jack would also have had access to aprons and overshirts he could have worn while "working"...

          4. I am quite serious about the month of October being busy, so that explains his "lapse"...

          5. The whole thing just "fits" to me...I know this is in no way scientific, but it is my point of view...

          ...just for fun, where are you from in Queens; my relatives were from Rego Park and Forest Hills...
          Cheers,
          cappuccina

          "Don't make me get my flying monkeys!"

          Comment


          • #6
            To: Cappuccina

            You make some good points about the that type of job and the type of person we are looking for, that job fits just as well as a butcher of some such. I wonder if other family/friends knew of the killer and helped hide the murderer and in 1889 it was all too much and had "him" sent away because of all the heat? Okay I am getting off topic now

            To answer your question, I moved to Jamaica Queens a few years ago (I like it here a lot) and grew up in Brooklyn East NYC - Funny I never thought of it till now but much like our subject matter here I too grew up in a pretty bad neighborhood...
            Sometimes all you learn in defeat is that you have been defeated - Anonymous

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            • #7
              gut girls

              Many of the meat slaughterers were women. See Sarah Daniels BRILLIANT play Gut Girls cronicaling the lives of these women. They were tough and independent and compared to women in domestic service or sweat shops, extreamly well paid The East End was awash with blood , sweat and dirt.
              No bits of the animal were wasted. What do you think the cat's meat man had? Also the poor had the lower cuts of meat, scrag end, liver, kidneys, lights, tongue etc. Miss Marple

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              • #8
                Since there is no evidence at all to suggest that Jack was Jewish.... other than comments made by investigators, and a story of a refused ID of one Jew by another, I think Caps its unwise to assume he was. And my eyes hurt when you wrote Astrakan....please say you dont buy that story....pleeessee.

                I dont even thing butcher, slaughterhouse, or furrier is even required, since we are talking about the killing of humans first, not cutting corpses.

                Jack could easily be a man who does his warehouse or dock work....and just experiments on cats and dogs when he has free time. Maybe the lapses in his kills are when he visits the farm country, and observes slaughterers.

                I believe he worked, and he worked into the night. His job was in the East End, and he walked the streets after work. Thats why he moved so easily among the people...he was used to being seen at night, and its how he learned the alleys and lanes at night. Daytime is easy,...but mere lamplight on those streets, and none at all in lanes and alleys must have been hard to negotiate,...particularly if you also sought to avoid police stations.

                My bet is Docker.

                Cheers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by perrymason View Post
                  Maybe the lapses in his kills are when he visits the farm country, and observes slaughterers.
                  There were slaughter-houses and knackers' yards in the East End, Mike. No need to go out of town for that.
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                    There were slaughter-houses and knackers' yards in the East End, Mike. No need to go out of town for that.
                    Thats true enough Sam,....however if we are talking about a man observing that kind of trade, while not employed in it, he would be very suspicious as time went on after August. It would seem Jack drew no attention from anyone, while the rampage was on anyway.

                    Also there are the lapses. Being out of town for a few weeks a month, in the the middle of them,....maybe I should amend my thoughts to include shipworkers of all kinds, as well as dockworkers.

                    I like dockers for a simple reason,... data you showed me that suggested by far the most predominant sector of working males that frequented prostitutes at that time, based on disease treaments sought and information being obtained at that time, were dockers.

                    The more there are seeking women, the easier to hide among them I figure.

                    All the best Sam.

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                    • #11
                      The profilers tell us that jtr was a local man.

                      The biggest employment in the area I think was Spitalfields fruit and vegetable market. He may have been a barrow boy, or labourer there, or shop worker. Several slaughter houses as you say are in the area, so he may have worked in a slaughter house. To the South I think is dockland, and its not too far. Perhaps a docker or sailor.

                      Not sure how far away Billingsgate Fish Market was, but Joseph Barnet was a fish porter there.

                      Then again there are all the shops on Comercial road, and vicinity,so he may have been a shop worker of any type.

                      If we go with what the profilers say, then it follows that he probably did one of these lowly manual jobs. It was not a place where the well to do lived. At best he was working class.
                      Last edited by Ashkenaz; 09-02-2008, 08:36 PM.
                      It was Bury whodunnit. The black eyed scoundrel.

                      The yam yams are the men, who won't be blamed for nothing..

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                      • #12
                        Hello Ashkenaz

                        We may, or may not, have a clue with the fact that Jack picked up Annie Chapman just around the corner from Spitalfields Market after 05.00 am.

                        It is also worth noting that if Caroline Maxwell was correct, she saw kelly on the morning of Nov 9th, talking to someone outside the Britannia who she described as a market porter.

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                        • #13
                          A point I have made numerous times, and that once again fills it´s place, is the fact that any skilled butcher would have known how to decapitate! And we have the medicos words that decapitation was tried - and failed! - in the cases of Kelly and Chapman. The bone in the neck was notched in both cases.
                          So no, I do not for a minute think that we are dealing with a trained butcher here! Such am man, described as he has been on this thread as a man who confidently cut get the job done with a blindfold on - would such a man come up with jagged, tentative wounds and stabs like those on the lower abdomen of Nichols? I don´t think so.

                          The best!
                          Fisherman

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                          • #14
                            Hi Ashkenaz,
                            Originally posted by Ashkenaz View Post
                            The biggest employment in the area I think was Spitalfields fruit and vegetable market.
                            They only had limited space, and even allowing for auxilliary staff (fetchers and carriers), I doubt that the market employed anywhere near the same amount of people as local building works and docks. A very quick search of the 1881 Census shows that there were far more labourers (roughly 300), dockers (c. 60) and dock-labourers (c. 58) living in Spitalfields than there were market porters (14) or "porters" in general (130) - not all of whom would have been employed at Spitalfields Market itself.
                            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                              A point I have made numerous times, and that once again fills it´s place, is the fact that any skilled butcher would have known how to decapitate! And we have the medicos words that decapitation was tried - and failed! - in the cases of Kelly and Chapman. The bone in the neck was notched in both cases.
                              So no, I do not for a minute think that we are dealing with a trained butcher here! Such am man, described as he has been on this thread as a man who confidently cut get the job done with a blindfold on - would such a man come up with jagged, tentative wounds and stabs like those on the lower abdomen of Nichols? I don´t think so.

                              The best!
                              Fisherman
                              You make a great counter point to my point (about him being skilled with a knife), and to that I say - That he must have been consumed with rage and passion to carry out his work like that. His sloppiness of work like that goes against his skillfulness of doing things like taking out whole organs in one piece and kidneys from the front of the body. I'd lean more to a skilled knife user who gets sloppy when excited over a sloppy knife user who gets skilled when he concentrates. But, that bit about trying to decapitate and failing ... I wonder if he was really trying to decapitate or did he just cut a bit too deep?

                              And to make something clear about the theory of “Jack” seeing butchers slaughter animals and then learning a thing of two from it (I saw this in a few earlier posts). There is a BIG difference from watching (or working with) a skilled professional and doing some of those acts yourself. It’s the same as seeing a Dare Devil use his motorbike to jump over 20 school buses and then thinking your going to give it a go next. No these murders seem to be done by someone who knows his (or HER?!?) way around body with a knife.

                              -

                              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              Hi Ashkenaz,They only had limited space, and even allowing for auxilliary staff (fetchers and carriers), I doubt that the market employed anywhere near the same amount of people as local building works and docks. A very quick search of the 1881 Census shows that there were far more labourers (roughly 300), dockers (c. 60) and dock-labourers (c. 58) living in Spitalfields than there were market porters (14) or "porters" in general (130) - not all of whom would have been employed at Spitalfields Market itself.
                              300 Dockworkers vs 14 porters … BUT … it just takes one to be Jack the Ripper! I know your saying statically wise he must have been from the bigger group, but there is no real way of knowing that out side of a generalization of the people in the area. Then again Dockworker fits in with the Sailor and sunburn description
                              Sometimes all you learn in defeat is that you have been defeated - Anonymous

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