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DVV
07-26-2008, 04:15 AM
Hutchinson has been once described as a man of "military appearance" by a journalist.
The man observed by Sarah Lewis was "not tall but stout".
Then, some have argued that a man of "military appearance" could hardly be a short one (see Paul Begg), and that Hutch could hardly have been the man seen by Lewis waiting around Miller's Court.

Now, have a look at this, from Stevenson, which shows that height and a "military appearance" might not be connected:

"The General, a red, military-looking man, offered some traces of a family resemblance to his brother; he had something of the same features, something, although very little, of the same free and powerful carriage; but he was older, smaller, and more common in air..."

The New Arabian Nights (The Rajah's Diamond), 1882

Amitiés,
The Master of Ballantrae

Sam Flynn
07-26-2008, 12:21 PM
Now, have a look at this, from Stevenson, which shows that height and a "military appearance" might not be connected:

"The General, a red, military-looking man, offered some traces of a family resemblance to his brother; he had something of the same features, something, although very little, of the same free and powerful carriage; but he was older, smaller, and more common in air..."Without knowing how tall the General's brother was, it's hard to interpret this -- however you may have a point, Dave.

The Good Michael
07-26-2008, 02:11 PM
Was this RLS who wrote this? If so, it is literature.

That being said, I think military appearance, unless it is referring to a style of dress, must be the same thing as 'military bearing' which is to have the mien of someone in the military. But, what does that mean exactly? Is it the way Hutchinson answered questions? Did he say 'yes sir' and 'no sir'? Is it the way he walked, perhaps with confidence? Is it the authoritative air of an officer, or the gruffer, but effective demeanor of an NCO? Does height come into play? Surely it can, but it doesn't have to. Did he wear neat clothing and shined boots? Was he wearing stylish muttonchops or some hair or mustache cut associated with the military? Can a policeman have military bearing? What about a foreman at a dock? What about a strict teacher at a boarding school?

Again, if it is RLS' work, it has no bearing (pardon the pun) on Hutchinson. Also, as the term can't be narrowly defined, it is open to far more numerous interpretations than those I just gave.

Cheers,

Mike

Ben
07-26-2008, 02:16 PM
Hi David,

"The General, a red, military-looking man"

This is interesting. Why red, I wonder? Perhaps a beetrooty complexion is associated with a military appearance? In which case, step this way Mr. Blotchy and bring your wideawake with ya. ;)

Best regards,
Ben

Sam Flynn
07-26-2008, 02:36 PM
Neddie: [Aside] The man walked with a military bearing, which he tossed into the air and caught. He emerged from the darkness and walked into the light. [FX: sound of head smashing into a metal lamp-shade].

Moriarty: Owwwww!

Neddie: [Aside] The stranger then turned his glance on me. He observed my shredded paper suit, my thrice-turned-overcoat, and my shoes sticking out of the ends of my feet. [To Moriarty] Why are you interested in me?

Moriarty: I run a rag-and-bone shop.

Neddie: Looking for a manager?

Moriarty: No, I'm looking for stock.

- Spike Milligan, The Goon Show, "Dishonoured"

The Good Michael
07-26-2008, 02:40 PM
Gareth,

Once the Goon Show is brought into it, does that spell the end of a thread? Perhaps it elevates it?

Mike

Sam Flynn
07-26-2008, 02:42 PM
Once the Goon Show is brought into it, does that spell the end of a thread? Perhaps it elevates it?I favour the latter interpretation, Mike :)

The Good Michael
07-26-2008, 02:43 PM
Speaking of Goons, I have time to chat for a bit. Starting (synchronizing watch) now!

Jon Guy
07-26-2008, 04:33 PM
Hello

Another gentleman involved in the Ripper saga who is of military appearance is Edward Stanley, who, according to Tim Donovan at the Chapman inquest :

She used to come and stay at the lodging-house on Saturdays with a man - a pensioner - of soldierly appearance, whose name I do not know.

DVV
07-27-2008, 03:26 AM
Was this RLS who wrote this? If so, it is literature.

That being said, I think military appearance, unless it is referring to a style of dress, must be the same thing as 'military bearing' which is to have the mien of someone in the military. But, what does that mean exactly? Is it the way Hutchinson answered questions? Did he say 'yes sir' and 'no sir'? Is it the way he walked, perhaps with confidence? Is it the authoritative air of an officer, or the gruffer, but effective demeanor of an NCO? Does height come into play? Surely it can, but it doesn't have to. Did he wear neat clothing and shined boots? Was he wearing stylish muttonchops or some hair or mustache cut associated with the military? Can a policeman have military bearing? What about a foreman at a dock? What about a strict teacher at a boarding school?

Again, if it is RLS' work, it has no bearing (pardon the pun) on Hutchinson. Also, as the term can't be narrowly defined, it is open to far more numerous interpretations than those I just gave.

Cheers,

Mike

Hello Mike,
all that you suggest about what a "military appearance" can mean is very reasonnable, and that was the aim of my post : why should it be connected to the height of the person (as Begg and others connected it in order to dismiss Hutch as a possible Wideawake Hat)?
So we are here in complete agreement.
As to the literature, an article is also literature... And I quoted Stevenson because it comes from the same period, so there might be some relevance.

Hello Ben,
I'm afraid that "red" merely suits General Vandeleur's temperament: a definitely irascible character!

Good night all!
Amitiés,
David

DVV
07-27-2008, 03:58 AM
Hello

Another gentleman involved in the Ripper saga who is of military appearance is Edward Stanley, who, according to Tim Donovan at the Chapman inquest :

She used to come and stay at the lodging-house on Saturdays with a man - a pensioner - of soldierly appearance, whose name I do not know.

Hello Jon Guy,
in fact, Donovan is even more precise: first he talked of a "military appearance", then:
"The pensioner was about 45 years old and about 5ft 8in. in height. At times he had the appearance of a dock labourer and at others the appearance of something better." (The Times, 11 September, quoted from Sourcebook)

In short, the height seems again to be of no great significance... It's more likely that a so-called "military appearance" has something to do with clothes, manner, etc.
And if Hutch was of a remarkable height, it was so simple for the journalist to write: "Yesterday, GH, a tall man..."

Amitiés,
David

The Good Michael
07-27-2008, 05:07 AM
David,

Off topic: I'm somewhat interested in the History of Ethiopia, and especially with regards to the Jewish tribesmen who were relocated to Israel, as well as the Christian monasteries and the religious significance of Axum. I don't believe Graham Hancock's version(s) of history, but I am interested in these things nevertheless. May I email you or PM if I have any questions about Ethiopian history.

Also, the last Flashman book concerns Abyssinia, and is a wonderful read.

Cheers,

Mike

DVV
07-27-2008, 05:27 AM
Hello Mike,
Off topic to (sorry all!).
Of course you can contact me by private message and send me your email there.
To be brief, the best specialist so far about the supposed "Jewish" Ethiopians is Steven Kaplan. I think his books are available on Amazon. He has also recently published several articles on the subject, he is still active.
In fact, the religion of the Falasha is almost certainly a derived heresy from Christianism.

Amitiés,
David