The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[Mayerling]

Interesting.

Yes, they are cheaper by the dozen.

By the way, thanks for the measurement of the height of Mary Kelly - I really did not know it (why indeed should I have needed to??? Only Pierre gave me a reason to inquire about it!).

Jeff

[JadenCollins]

Yes, they are cheaper by the dozen.

By the way, thanks for the measurement of the height of Mary Kelly - I really did not know it (why indeed should I have needed to??? Only Pierre gave me a reason to inquire about it!).

Jeff

Was that sarcasm?

Yeah, well that's what the description states, who knows if that's true.
She's known to be taller than the other victims so it could be true.


Jaden

[Mayerling]

Was that sarcasm?

Yeah, well that's what the description states, who knows if that's true.
She's known to be taller than the other victims so it could be true.


Jaden

No, sadly not sarcasm, except for the reference to Pierre and his decision to bring up the coffin. My comments on that thread still seem relevant - you need to know Mary's height to know the size of the coffin, before commenting on moving it into that room.

But only Pierre would think of making the movements in that room of the coffin into a matter of importance (which is a little sarcastic - sorry).

Jeff

[JadenCollins]

No, sadly not sarcasm, except for the reference to Pierre and his decision to bring up the coffin. My comments on that thread still seem relevant - you need to know Mary's height to know the size of the coffin, before commenting on moving it into that room.

But only Pierre would think of making the movements in that room of the coffin into a matter of importance (which is a little sarcastic - sorry).

Jeff

Can't disagree on that!


Jaden

[Craig H]

Hi Craig,

I was surprised to read this because on 3 November 2015, Pierre said:

"the person I have found wasn´t a Scotland Yard official".

That is the direct opposite of what you now claim he is saying. Has he categorically stated that he was lying on 3 November and that his suspect was indeed a Scotland Yard official? If so, do you have a reference for this?

Hi David

I summarised Pierres clues and his post 161 in this thread stated which ones are correct.

My interpretation of the confession is his suspect said something in an article or recollections / memoir that only the killer would have known (did that just sound like an old Columbo episode ???)

Craig

[David Orsam]

Hi David

I summarised Pierres clues and his post 161 in this thread stated which ones are correct.

In post 161 Pierre didn't actually say anything but he confirmed the following that you had written by highlighting it in green:

he was well educated, had anatomical knowledge (but not a doctor), lived at some stage in an expansive home such as the photo you uploaded….he was not a Police Constable) and wanted to show the Police he was smarter than them.

I don't see anything in there which confirms his suspect was a Scotland Yard official.

[Craig H]

Hi David

In my post, I understood JTR "was not a Scotland Yard official" and Pierre didn't highlight that in green. I interpreted that meaning the statement was wrong - that is, he was a Scotland Yard official.

Craig

[David Orsam]

In my post, I understood JTR "was not a Scotland Yard official" and Pierre didn't highlight that in green. I interpreted that meaning the statement was wrong - that is, he was a Scotland Yard official.

Hi Craig,

Leaving aside how bizarre it is that we are trying to interpret someone's theory on the basis of whether he has or has not coloured a particular sentence in green, what you posted was:

"You had previously mentioned your suspect was not a Scotland Yard official - that is, Metropolitan Police Force."

I don't think any safe conclusions can be drawn from the fact that this sentence remained uncoloured by Pierre in his response.

Also, your sentence was not an entirely accurate representation of what Pierre said. While he had previously denied that his suspect was a Scotland Yard official, this would not necessarily mean that he was not in the Metropolitan Police Force (although whether that is the case in Pierre's mind I just don't know).

[Mayerling]

Hi David

My interpretation of the confession is his suspect said something in an article or recollections / memoir that only the killer would have known (did that just sound like an old Columbo episode ???)

Craig

Hi Craig,

Since you mentioned it, yes it does sound like a plot twist in several Colombo episode's, with variations. In one where Patrick MacGoohan has killed Leslie Neilson, MacGoohan supposedly was working on a speech for Vito Scotti to deliver at a breakfast, and when he is driving following the murder has heard a news item that Red China was going to boycott the Olympics. He reaches his office and in the speech includes a comparison that involves this news item. Supposedly, had he actually written the speech at home the night before, he would not have heard - at that time - the news item, so when Colombo realizes it was put in by him, he realizes the speech was typed later in the morning, so that MacGoohan actually had the time earlier to kill Neilson. As I said this trick is used in several of the episodes with variations.

Jeff

[Rosemary]

Out of context

Hi Craig,

Leaving aside how bizarre it is that we are trying to interpret someone's theory on the basis of whether he has or has not coloured a particular sentence in green, what you posted was:

"You had previously mentioned your suspect was not a Scotland Yard official - that is, Metropolitan Police Force."

I don't think any safe conclusions can be drawn from the fact that this sentence remained uncoloured by Pierre in his response.

Also, your sentence was not an entirely accurate representation of what Pierre said. While he had previously denied that his suspect was a Scotland Yard official, this would not necessarily mean that he was not in the Metropolitan Police Force (although whether that is the case in Pierre's mind I just don't know).

I'm a great admirer of your work, David, but please let me take something out of context from your last sentence before the champagne renders me far too inane:
"...in Pierre's mind I just don't know."

[Craig H]

Hi Jeff
Thanks for mentioning the Columbo episode - not seen it. That must have been when Leslie Nielsen was a "serious" actor. Amazing the number of actors in guest star roles on that show.
Craig

[GUT]

Hi Jeff
Thanks for mentioning the Columbo episode - not seen it. That must have been when Leslie Nielsen was a "serious" actor. Amazing the number of actors in guest star roles on that show.
Craig

There have been a couple of shows that attracted lots of guest stars.

Colombo was certainly one.

The Simpsons, Friends and , The Love Boat are others that spring to mind.

[Craig H]

The OP about JTR possibly being a police official prompted me to do some more reading about the London police force.

I wasn't aware about how Charles Warren was so unpopular, especially after the November 1887 "Bloody Sunday" violence between police and protesting unemployed workers (2 deaths and 100 injuries). A quote I found was "the press attacked the 'Met' force and frequently compared it's work unfavourably with that of the 'City of London Police'."

I also read about concerns of undermanning police stations, and poor police discipline (constables sacked for drinking on the job, etc)

There may have been a push to have Warren replaced. I also read how the new Police Leadership led to a stronger, more positive police force. It also allowed Moro to appoint Macnaghten (who had been blocked by Warren)

This could explain some co-incidence in dates. Robert Anderson was appointed Assistant Commissioner the day Polly Nichols died. Warren resigned the day of Kelly's murder.

Pierre gave several clues on his suspect :- an official of Scotland Yard / Metropolitan Police (not London City Policy), born before 1858, well educated, had lived in an expensive home at some stage, thought he was smarter, did not live in the local Whitechapel area, was not a police constable.

I found a great book which listed all Police force of 1888

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=9QerSzv2RDQC&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=%22sir+james+fraser%22+london+police&source=bl&ots=9_q9J76J8q&sig=LvKR26LVGvBmCUnv7lUPx1G0fZY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwii99HDvP3JAhWDJKYKHebAARwQ6AEIRDAI#v=onepage&q=%22sir%20james%20fraser%22%20london%20police&f=false

I came down to a short list of 10 who could meet the criteria.

The most obvious ones:

• Alexander Carmichael Bruce (Assistant Commissioner of Metro Police) - previously a barrister (well educated), the only one living in wealth home with servants, right location
• Inspector William Causby
• Sergeant Amos Dudman
• Detective Sergeant Patrick Enright
• Sergeant Henry Kerby / Kirby - was fired for drinking on the job. Barnard Brown wrote an article on him (does anyone have a copy ?)
• Chief Inspector John George Littlechild
• Detective Constable Robert Sagar - started a medicine degree before transferring to Police. On retirement, described as one of the smartest police detectives. Technically was with City Police not Metro
• Major Henry Smith -
• Inspector John Spratling
• Sergeant Stephen White
• Inspector Richard Webb

We're heading away for a few days. Interested in others feedback on this

Rgds
Craig

Hi Pierre

Does any of this make sense / on track ?

I assumed you were thinking we would try to join the dots from some of the clues you gave ???

All the best

Craig

[GUT]

Hi Pierre

Does any of this make sense / on track ?

I assumed you were thinking we would try to join the dots from some of the clues you gave ???

All the best

Craig

Pierre can't tell you as you are not an academic of his lofty standards.

[Rosella]

Has Pierre said his suspect may have been a City policeman? I apologise for having to ask but I'm in a muddle at the moment about what Pierre has stated as a fact, retracted, hinted at, phrased in metaphorical language and outright denied.

If he has hinted at the City Police being involved I wouldn't be surprised if Inspector Sagar is the suspect, in spite of Sagar not having lived in a mansion as far as I know. Perhaps Pierre has tracked down Sagar's long-lost memoirs. (He seems to be the likeliest on Craig's shortlist anyway.)