Private sale

[Ally]

Yes haven't you realized yet Adam, it's ALL forged. Everything, every memo, every article, every scrap of paper, ALL of it a forgery!! Basically Jim Swanson spent the last several years of his life frantically forging things he would never benefit from and "secreting" them away in the hopes that someone would uncover them someday.

[Lechmere]

Jenni
I can only assume you mean the Crime Museum memo? The provenance of that is doubtful and can't be relied upon as something on which to base anything - until it is validated.

[Jenni Shelden]

Do you believe all the items just posted by Adam are fake?

[Lechmere]

The most basic examination would not rely on papers written by the same person as proof of innocence.

[Chris]

From Adam Wood’s Ripperologist article

The letter wasn’t glued in place when Charles Nevin visited Jim in October 1987 while preparing the Telegraph article, nor when Martin Fido saw the book shortly afterwards, although the latter remembers seeing the letter and book together, possibly as a loose insertion.

Thanks. But don't we have to be a bit careful about people's recollections of events 25 years earlier - unless they are supported by photographs or contemporary notes, for example?

[AdamNeilWood]

Adam
‘Don't you think the News of the World might have been more than a little surprised if they received a letter from Jim Swanson saying he had "authentic printed and written information that names the suspect" only to find no such name when they inspected it a few days later?’

If that was what Jim Swanson wrote in the letter he actually sent to the News of the World – the yes – obviously. But was it? If he was capable of forging the Marginalia then he would have been more than capable of forging his own letter.

You're suggesting that Jim Swanson wrote a letter to the News of the World without the bottom paragraph of the first page (which states that he has information on the name of the suspect, why he was not brought to justice and what eventually happened to him).

On the strength of the remaining part of the letter, the NOTW were still interested enough to visit twice and pay £750.

Jim Swanson then filled in the blank part of the letter saying the suspect's name etc was there, just in case someone wanted to check the copy of his letter at some point in the future.

Only... he sent the same letter to the Sunday Express, who for some unexplained reason wrote back saying "the documents that seem to establish the identity of Jack the Ripper sound most interesting."

OK.

[Lechmere]

Jenni
Do you believe all the items just posted by Adam are fake?

Why on earth would you say that?

Do you think the letters written by Jim Swanson are good evidence that he did not forge the Marginalia?
Do you think they are valid as any sort of evidence that he did not fake the Marginalia?

The only non Jim Swanson item that mentioned the suspect is the Express letter and I have never suggested it was forged.

The Sandell memo is different matter as that is one of the pieces that turned up at the Scotland Yard Museum - that in my opinion needs further explaining.

[Scott Nelson]

That was the 666th reply on this thread....

[Jenni Shelden]

Jenni
Do you believe all the items just posted by Adam are fake?

Why on earth would you say that?

Do you think the letters written by Jim Swanson are good evidence that he did not forge the Marginalia?
Do you think they are valid as any sort of evidence that he did not fake the Marginalia?

The only non Jim Swanson item that mentioned the suspect is the Express letter and I have never suggested it was forged.

The Sandell memo is different matter as that is one of the pieces that turned up at the Scotland Yard Museum - that in my opinion needs further explaining.

You lost me and I'm looking at this on my phone trying to figure out how on earth your points over this thread fit together .
hence the question ,so that was a no ,thanks

[Lechmere]

Two people have independently said that the letter was not stuck in the front if the book in 1987.

Adam
For all we know Jim Swanson could have re-written the News of the World letter after the event based completely on what he had written to the Express. How long would that take – 5 minutes?

The News of the World were willing to pay £750 – not a bad sum, and which implies good information was supplied. But they didn’t publish, which somewhat undermines that proposition.

[Lechmere]

Scott
Adam's cover has been blown

[AdamNeilWood]

Two people have independently said that the letter was not stuck in the front if the book in 1987.

Adam
For all we know Jim Swanson could have re-written the News of the World letter after the event based completely on what he had written to the Express. How long would that take – 5 minutes?

The News of the World were willing to pay £750 – not a bad sum, and which implies good information was supplied. But they didn’t publish, which somewhat undermines that proposition.

Have I got this right... the letter to the Sunday Express DID state the suspect's name and other information was in place, and Jim wrote an entirely different letter to the News of the World then copied the content of the Express letter to create a false file copy of his missive to the NOTW.

But because Jim turned down the Express they didn't get a chance to check if the name of the suspect was really there. It was really a clever trick by Jim to create some provenance.

That it?

[Lechmere]

For sake of clarity.
I'm not saying that any of them are fake.

I am saying that there is a question mark over the Scotland Yard Crime Museum items and they should not be used to guarantee the legitimacy of the Marginalia until they are properly verified - somehow. But if they are verified then they do effectively legitimise the Marginalia in my opinion.
I have stated this on numerous occasions.

Similarly paperwork written by Jim Swanson cannot be used to verify the legitimacy of the Marginalia, unless it can be proved that he wrote it in, say 1981.

[Lechmere]

Adam
I mentioned something like that about 300 posts ago when you first posted the Express letter.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

"The Yorkshire Ripper trial is bound to stimulate interest in the original Jack the Ripper and it seems an appropriate time to run a story." — Charles Sandell, 15th April 1981

I thought it might be useful to look at the Swanson NOTW story in a broader context.

The following events, going on in and around the time of the Swanson/Sandell correspondence and article, may have had a bearing on the NOTW decision not to run the D.S.S. story.

They are the conclusions of the Press Council, from the book "Press Conduct In The Sutcliffe Case", a report by the Press Council (1983), in regards to the chequebook journalism which took place, both payments to persons who could reasonably be expected to be witnesses in criminal proceedings, and offers or payments to relatives and associates of the suspect.

The "Brief Summary" sections are a paraphrased version of the report to give the salient points from the publication.)

News of the World (Brief Summary)—

The News of the World, on 7 June 1981, had a front page exclusive interview with Mrs Sonia Sutcliffe and stated that it had not paid any money to her. Mr Henry Douglas, the legal manager of News Group Newspapers, on behalf of the editor, stated that the paper had decided not to approach possible witnesses, but when it appeared Mrs Szurma-Sutcliffe would not be a witness, it made approaches for her story. Two letters, both dated 7 January 1981, were from Mr Kenneth Donlan, then the editor of the News of the World. The first letter stated that after conversations between Mr Macgill and the paper's chief crime reporter, Mr Charles Sandell, and another reporter, Mr Keith Beabey, the editor was confirming the News of the World's interest in Mrs Szurma-Sutcliffe's, her parents' and her husband's stories and was prepared to pay a substantial fee for the exclusive rights. The second letter announced that the News of the World wished to withdraw from negotiations for her story and stated "if there is any change in our policy I shall contact you again but this is most unlikely." Another letter, dated 7 April 1981, from Miss Rosalie Shann, introduced herself as a freelance journalist writing on behalf of the News of the World and stated there obviously would be a considerable amount of money involved, that would be sorted out by the editor and Mr Macgill or Mrs Szurma-Sutcliffe. A further letter, dated 27 April 1981, by the assistant editor, Mr Kuttner, to Mr Macgill, reiterated the News of the World's interest in a contract for exclusive publication of Mrs Szurma-Sutcliffe's story and mentioned a fee of not less than £110,000.

More at http://www.execulink.com/~kbrannen/press2.htm

I have to say that in the light of the magnitude of these alleged payments, £750 [plus a possible extra £250] for the D.S.S. story does seem like pocket money.

Regards,

Simon