Druitt - A Link to the East End: The People's Palace

[Chris Scott]

I don't remember seeing this entry before.
In The Times of 1 April 1886 on Page 12 there is a very long list of subscribers.
This list of Subscribers is explained on the previous page as follows:
The Beaumont Trust
The People's Palace in East London
Patron: Her Most Gracious Majesty the Queen
Temporary Offices: 28 Commercial Street, E.
Bankers: London and Westminster Bank (Whitechapel Branch)
The Trustees appeal for funds to establish what they propose to term the People's Palace for East London, which will comprise:

There follows a detailed description of the site in Mile End and the aims and objectives. From the list of subcribers we see that Montague Druitt subscribed £1 for this appeal (see below)

A link at last between Druitt and the East End?

For more details about the People's Palace, which opened in 1887, see

http://www.whitechapelsociety.com/London/life_leisure/peoples_palace.htm

[aspallek]

Well done, Chris. How many times have we searched through the Times and we've never found that one before! It just goes to show that there are many more gems yet to be found.

Yes, it is a connection, though not necessarily a physical connection. However, lest we think £1 was a measly amount in 1886, consider this from www.measuringworth.com :

In 2006, £1 0s 0d from 1886 was worth:

£74.88 using the retail price index
£102.45 using the GDP deflator
£493.22 using the average earnings
£636.10 using the per capita GDP
£1,060.36 using the share of GDP

So, this was a contribution of at least 75 quid in today's terms. Not a fortune but not chicken feed, either.

Ed. - I note that the People's Palace was in the Mile End Road. This is also where Montague's relative Jabez Druitt lived.

[Chris Scott]

Guess who else was on the list...

[Natalie Severn]

Great Chris-----I have been looking for such all afternoon!
Anyway it may interest you that their "temporary offices" were at number 28 Commercial Street which is none other than the address of Toynbee Hall!
Wheels within wheels!
The Besants were also very active in Toynbee Hall.

[Natalie Severn]

In the chapter on Pupil Teacher Centres - Canon Barnett-His life and Work,
it states :
It gave Canon Barnett genuine satisfaction to place the Toynbee Rooms at the disposal of the School Board to enable Sir Edmund Currie"s[Of the People"s Palace"] ideas of Pupil Teacher Centres to be accomplished-1885.
There are several pages devoted to the debates the boys enjoyed etc etc .
It was greatly hoped thatthe educational side of this" People"s Palace" would eventually become the first "East London University".

As you all probably know already,this R Acland Chris G pointed out ,Reginald ,who donated £3 ,was Druitt"s "Fives" oppponent from Oxford-according to D J Leighton.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Norma
Glad it's of use
There is another Dyke Acland on the list as well
Also another Druitt (see below) - not sure who this is

[Chris Scott]

Here's a clearer version of the MJD entry

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Chris,well this discovery of several of the names known to have been associated with Druitt -on their own -are of some significance but to find an actual named donation by Druitt to an East End charity to do with education could be very significant. At Toynbee alone many more people were involved from Oxford than I have found names for.And while it was certainly a very worthy cause ,it was also very "fashionable" among the upper and middle classes at the time,to become involved.
Lets hope we can unearth some more.
Best
Norma

[Sam Flynn]

My sister sponsors a child in Ghana, but she's never been there. I made a sizeable donation to Live Aid and (more recently) to the tsunami appeal. Sometimes charity begins, and ends, away from home.

Just a word of caution - not wishing to detract from this splendid find in any way.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Sam
A useful note of caution
When I said "link" I did not mean to imply that this showed in some way that Druitt knew or had even been to the East End
Rather that he was aware of and concerned about the plight of the East End and the efforts to do something about it.
Chris

[aspallek]

Hi Sam
A useful note of caution
When I said "link" I did not mean to imply that this showed in some way that Druitt knew or had even been to the East End
Rather that he was aware of and concerned about the plight of the East End and the efforts to do something about it.
Chris

However, with a relative also on the Mile End Road, it may imply more than that. But we shall proceed cautiously.

With regard to the "Thos Druitt" there was indeed a "Thomas Druitt" but I can't remember if or how he was connected.

[Gideon Fell]

However, with a relative also on the Mile End Road, it may imply more than that. But we shall proceed cautiously.

With regard to the "Thos Druitt" there was indeed a "Thomas Druitt" but I can't remember if or how he was connected.

Wasn't there a Thomas Druitt who lived in New South Wales?

[Natalie Severn]

I managed to slip into the library this lunch hour and look up the Toynbee Hall reference book by Pimlott. There are a few references to this venture the first on page 58 indicates that it was the "brainchild" of Walter Besant,an early socialist and scientist who wrote books,was an atheist -not that common in Victorian England-and ofcourse the husband of Annie Besant who led her troops ,unprepared ,straight into a "disastrous encounter" with Charles Warren"s military troops in Trafalgar Square -that was the famous Bloody Sunday of November 1887.


re The People"s Palace:

Walter Besant wrote,in 1883/4 about his grand plan for "People"s Palace".

"I see before us in the immediate future 1884, a vast University whose home is in the MIle End Road".
His dream,it says,came to pass in the Queen Mary [formerly East London]College.
On page 174 of the same book on Toynbee Hall it refers to Toynbee Hall as being connected with the "foundation" of the People"s Palace etc
Walter Besant was way more radical than dear old Canon Barnett----much more like William Morris who was a "comrade in struggle".
It really looks to me like the "People"s Palace" may well have been set up as a rival to Toynbee Hall by those who were not religious----or maybe it just wasnt quite so " religious".Rev.Barnett"s wife is also a bit disapproving when talking about the People"s Palace "pupil teachers" who she clearly views as "not so well bred" as the Oxford Graduates she and hubbie Barnett have so carefully cultivated.
Listen to Samuel Barnett -Life and Work-
"May 1885,On Wednesday we had a party of girl pupil teachers.They are better stuff than the boys,but not very hopeful as mothers of the future-mothers in more senses than one".And its clear both Mr and Mrs B found the girls very noisy when swimming and a bit of a handful when out with them."

"It gave Canon Barnett genuine satisfaction to place the Toynbee rooms at the disposal of Sir Edmund Currie"s "pupil/ teacher" centres etc etc........
........the centre under Mr and Mrs Bannister did not remain long in Toynbee
a Mr Lyttleton Gell,Chair of Toynbee council, wrote in his report of the Pupil Teacher Association:[it was there several years in fact]

1886,These boys,the teachers of the coming generation of Englishmen, are, in what should be the brightest and freest time of their lives,subjected to a never ending and monotonous round of cramming and being crammed and have little chance of seeing anything of the brighter and nobler side of learning-[and it continues in this withering tone until."...............[.their only concern is] "what will pay" and it is this that is bound up with all their studies.

Apparently Mrs Barnett felt the "association" was productive of much good.They ran a great many debates,ate huge teas, and then debated with astonishing vigour questions like "Votes for Women", "The House of Lords is useless,dangerous and ought to be abolished",Democracy has not failed in France",Parliament should interfere to limit hours of Labour"1889...........The pupil teachers did all the debating themselves and great nonsense they often talked, but they were in earnest and solemnly recorded decisions."she wrote .
Apparently a Mr Sargeant instituted a very large athletic organisation and there was even a rowing club coached by an Oxford Blue and vaingloriously called "The Argonauts".



A few paragraphs are given over to the sight of all these girls being brought in to train as teachers-quite a novelty apparently-and Mrs Barnett doesnt seem to know whether she approves or not.




Anyway ,I thought you might like to know a little of the philosophy and background of this East End Institution,the" People"s Palace ",that Monty put his name to and gave £1 towards!

When writing about the Rowing club, Mrs Barnett states "Mr Barnett and I went to Chiswick for their gala day.----this would have been quite close to where Druitt was found.

[Chris George]

However, with a relative also on the Mile End Road, it may imply more than that. But we shall proceed cautiously.

With regard to the "Thos Druitt" there was indeed a "Thomas Druitt" but I can't remember if or how he was connected.

I seem to recall that we did establish that there was no close links between Thomas Druitt and Monty's Druitts. Maybe a distant relationship. But I think it probable on the basis of the information we are finding that Montague did know the East End and was not just familiar with the green turf of playing fields, classrooms, and chill judicial chambers.

Chris

[Chris George]

. . . Anyway ,I thought you might like to know a little of the philosophy and background of this East End Institution,the" People"s Palace ",that Monty put his name to and gave £1 towards!

When writing about the Rowing club, Mrs Barnett states "Mr Barnett and I went to Chiswick for their gala day.----this would have been quite close to where Druitt was found.

Many thanks for this information, Natalie!

Chris