New Solution

[Roy Corduroy]

A recently published book titled The Fox and the Flies offers a new solution to the mystery. In this scenario, Joseph Lis, an emigrant, was the 19 year-old in the gang that killed Smith, then he killed the others acting alone. After the Kelly murder, he, using the name Issacs, was briefly collared by police but let go. The solution here is inferred, not proven, and the author, Charles van Onselen says as much. But it has a certain resonance as to the known facts, at least based on my primitive knowledge thereof. Have any of you experts read the book, and if so, what do you think?

[Doctor X]

Methinks you need to give a lot more detail.

Maybe others know of this book and can comment.

--J."Not an Expert but Pontificates Like One" D.

[The Grave Maurice]

Hi Roy,

This book was discussed pretty thoroughly on the pre-crash boards. As I recall, the consensus was that Charles van Onselen had produced an interesting book that shed light on the late nineteenth-century underworld on both sides of the Atlantic, but the JtR angle seemed to be tacked on as an after thought. The author could produce no evidence linking Lis to the murders or establishing that he was even in London in 1888.

Like you, though, I was struck by his suggestion that Lis might have been the youth in the gang that attacked Emma Smith. It's a good read, but probably not a "new solution".

[Mitch Rowe]

I dont know if Im ever going to believe Emmas story of a gang of roughians.
Something like that seems as if Police of the time would be able to solve. They knew who were gangsters. Yet none were caught or charged.

Emma is described as coming home on many occasions with black eyes from her male associates. She seems like the protective type. Its possible she never realized the extent of her injuries. Its possible she was protecting a Man she thought she loved. Its also possible then that this Man was indeed JTR.
I read a statement from one of the Women who claims to have eyewitnessed at least in part what happened to Emma. Its that staement wich leads me to believe Emma was lying. Ill try to find it in the next few days.

[sdreid]

Yes, as I've said before, I always wondered if Smith wasn't protecting someone with a false story like Margery Wren did in her murder in 1930. It would seem that somebody would have given up the the crime sooner or later if it was a gang but anything is possible.

[paul emmett]

I read a statement from one of the Women who claims to have eyewitnessed at least in part what happened to Emma. Its that staement wich leads me to believe Emma was lying. Ill try to find it in the next few days.

Hello, Mitch.

I would be intrested in it if you do find it, because I've always wondered why some of the police kept chalking up Emma to JTR. I guess they didn't believe her either.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Paul

I believe it was due to the brutality of the attack. Although she is dismissed by some as a victim of robbery ( I can`t imagine what she had worth taking - unless she had just serviced a client), her ear was nearly torn off and something pushed with force inside her, this was new. If she was robbed, this came second to the actual assault.

[Mike Covell]

If you was going to go that far to rob someone, why not rob someone worth robbing??

[Mitch Rowe]

If you was going to go that far to rob someone, why not rob someone worth robbing??

Reporter: "Why do you rob banks?"
Dillinger: "Because thats where the money is."

[Mike Covell]

Hi Mitch, I wouldn't waste time robbing and seriously wounding an unfortunate when I could do the same to someone with a lot of cash!!

[Dan Norder]

Have any of you experts read the book, and if so, what do you think?

Here is a link to Alan Sharp's review for Ripper Notes.

I still haven't read the whole thing myself -- it's extremely long and certainly not a high priority with so many far superior books out there -- but the Jack the Ripper section is like a lot of other authors' theories: any wildly speculative "might have been" gets presented as a "probably" despite the many more realistic possibilities and then under the sheer weight of all the claims that get tossed out the author presents his version of things as a "it must have happened this way." It not only didn't have to happen that way, it could have happened some million other different ways.

Joseph Lis was no different from thousands of other criminals at the time. He just happened to have a book written about him. Any of those others could have books written about them also (assuming someone could find enough information a century later) and have an equally speculative theory that they were the Ripper created. And the Ripper may have been one of them, or may have not been.

Incidentally, the last time I was at my local Borders book store, a couple of paperbacks of Cornwell's Case Closed and a The Fox and Flies were the only Jack the Ripper books they had stocked. That's pretty pathetic.

[Mike Covell]

The book is always stocked in the local Waterstones book store but it has never really intrested me, until recently when there was not much else in!

I looked the the blurb, had a quick skim through and put it back.

Coincidently, "The Ripper Code" was in plentiful supply, stacked up high in Crime Fiction!!!

[sdreid]

Well, whoever did it, the attack happened 120 years ago tonight. Too bad the gutter rat got away with it.

[m_w_r]

Charles Nicholl reviewed The Fox and the Flies for the "London Review of Books":

Here's the link.

Mark

[Jeff Leahy]

Emma's story has never really added up

I seem to remember a discussion on the old boards that Emma had been spotted that day some distance away towards Mile End...

The Ripper case is blessed with false information from victims. Why do you think they cant find Kelly?

Jeff