Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Hutchinson, George: Possible reason for Hutch coming forward - by Wickerman 1 minute ago.
General Discussion: Help me find the source of this story - by MrBarnett 1 minute ago.
General Discussion: Help me find the source of this story - by MrBarnett 8 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Possible reason for Hutch coming forward - by Abby Normal 1 hour and 4 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Possible reason for Hutch coming forward - by Abby Normal 1 hour and 5 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Possible reason for Hutch coming forward - by Wickerman 1 hour and 15 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Hutchinson, George: Possible reason for Hutch coming forward - (16 posts)
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - (3 posts)
General Discussion: Help me find the source of this story - (2 posts)
Doctors and Coroners: Baxter's influence on Ripper lore - (1 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Kosminski/Kaminsky - please debunk - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Deeming, Frederick

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-19-2009, 11:36 PM
Archaic Archaic is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 1,902
Default Deeming & Eddowes: Witness Says D. Wrote To Her (1897 Encyclopedia)

Hi, folks.

I came across this article on Frederick Deeming in an 1897 encyclopedia called 'The Standard American Encyclopedia' and thought it might be of interest.

The passage stating that a man in Halifax claimed Deeming "wrote to Eddowes" is what caught my eye.

Best regards, Archaic
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Archaic : 12-19-2009 at 11:50 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-10-2010, 03:50 AM
Yimmit Yimmit is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Very interesting indeed. I'm surprised no one has picked up on this before!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-10-2010, 04:33 AM
jmenges jmenges is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,242
Default

Some books on the subject mention this incident as Eddowes writing to Deeming.

JM
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-10-2010, 05:59 AM
Archaic Archaic is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 1,902
Default

Hi Jon, how are you?

Do you think there's any truth in the story that Eddowes and Deeming ever corresponded, or do you think it's just a rumor that got repeated and printed in the newspaper? (And eventually in books, as you have pointed out.)

Personally I think the story was merely a rumor.

Best regards,
Archaic
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-10-2010, 06:50 AM
jmenges jmenges is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
Hi Jon, how are you?

Personally I think the story was merely a rumor.
I'm fine, and you?

I agree, for now, since all evidence points to Deeming being in South Africa in the whole of 1888. His arrest for the Rainhill murder was so complete a press sensation that people were coming out of the woodwork identifying him as 'Jack the Ripper'. "Eye witnesses", over-heard train-conversation confessions, handwriting "similarities" with the letters, etc. I don't buy any of it.

All the best,

JM
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-10-2010, 11:35 AM
Adam Went Adam Went is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 779
Default

That's a very interesting article, although as Jon says, Deeming was most likely in South Africa at the time of the murders.

I wonder if this article doesn't have something to do with Kate Eddowes' apparent claim that she knew who JTR was, then when Deeming came to light as a plausible suspect, these two events were linked together in the form of correspondence by mail?

Do we even know whether Kate could read or write that well?

Cheers,
Adam.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-12-2010, 12:08 AM
Mayerling Mayerling is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Flushing, New York
Posts: 2,696
Default

When I did some research on Deeming back in the 1980s I saw the various "Jack the Ripper" stories, and the attempts that linked Deeming to the "double header" killing of September 29/30 1888. This was the only one of the attempts to link Deeming to the killings that had a minimum of plausibility. But it is very much a minimum.

By the way, Deeming was out of South Africa by the fall of 1888, but his exact whereabouts are extremely questionable. This problem is complicated by a tendency to claim he was in jail while the Ripper murders occurred. The late Tom Cullen said so in his AUTUMN OF TERROR (in the U.S.A. WHEN LONDON WALKED IN TERROR) citing the earlier work by L.C. Douthwaite called MASS MURDERERS. But Douthwaite only mentioned a period Deeming was in jail from 1890 to 1891 in England, and that period inclluded the murder of Frances Coles (then, in 1930, considered one of the victims of the Ripper). Today Coles is not so considered, so Douthwaite's comment is faulty, and Cullen's reliance on it is wrong.

Jeff
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-12-2010, 12:34 AM
jmenges jmenges is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,242
Default

Hi Jeff,

Is the information (presumably reported by the press) that he was in Port Elizabeth until August of 1889 erroneous? I'm citing Summing Up and Verdict, but am unaware of their source.

Thanks,

JM
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-12-2010, 12:40 AM
jmenges jmenges is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,242
Default

One such press report gives us this timeline:

Daily Gleaner 19 April 1892

1888 - January to June - Arrives from Melbourne in Adelaide under name of Ward. Sails from Port Adelaide after a month's stay there.

Two brothers with whom he sails on ship Barossa are robbed of 60. Deeming suspected but nothing proved. Boy Sidney (third child) born on voyage. On arrival at St. Helena tranships to Dunrobin Castle, and arrives with wife and family at Cape Town about middle of year, say June.

April 3 - Emma Smith died in her lodgings of injuries received at the hands of Whitechapel roughs.

Aug. 7 - Martha Tabram. Murdered and mutilated, George yard buildings, Commercial street, E.

Aug. 31 - Mary Ann Nicholls. Murdered and mutilated Buck's row.

Sept. 8 - Annie Chapman. Hanbury street, Whitechapel.

Sept. 30 - Elizabeth Stride, Berner street, Whitechapel, and Catherine Eddowes, Mitre square.

Nov. 9 - Mary Jane Kelly. Murdered and mutilated in a room of Dorset street.

Deeming at work for a form of engineers in Cape Town from the middle of the year. Subsequently at Port Elizabeth, Natal, and Kimberley, where he passes as a gold mine manager.

1889 - April - In Kierksdorp, Transvaal, having previously obtained 600 in Durban by fraud.

July 18 - Gets 2,800 at Johannesburg on worthless securities, obtains 420 of jewellery, and decamps, sailing from Durban in SS Dunkeld.

July 17 - Alice MacKenzie murdered in Castle alley. Some attempt at mutilation.

Sept. 11 - Mutilated remains found under a railway arch in East end.

Sept. 14 - Having reached Suez in August or September, Deeming embarks on Sept. 14th on British India steamer Jumna.

Sept. 27 - Arrive at Plymouth.


JM
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-13-2010, 12:06 AM
Archaic Archaic is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 1,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Went View Post
I wonder if this article doesn't have something to do with Kate Eddowes' apparent claim that she knew who JTR was, then when Deeming came to light as a plausible suspect, these two events were linked together in the form of correspondence by mail?

Do we even know whether Kate could read or write that well?
Hi Adam.

I doubt this story for many reasons, including the fact that even if Kate was reasonably literate it's unlikely that she had money to spend on pens, ink, paper, envelopes and stamps.

If the story is true, where is the evidence? Where are the physical letters? I think it's just another myth.

Thanks Jon for the timeline.

Best regards,
Archaic
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.