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  #821  
Old 11-29-2016, 03:29 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick S View Post
Stop listening to all the talking heads telling you how afraid you SHOULD be and wait until something actually happens that impacts you and yours.
Germans could have stopped Hitler if they had moved against him in the 1930's, by the time they waited "to give him a chance?", he became too strong to oppose.
Look what happened then....

In truth, I don't really expect Trump to become another dictator, it's just that history does repeat itself, and the only reason it does is because 'we' are often too naive to believe "it could all happen again".
Why don't we ever learn?

We already know Trump is a perpetual liar, incredibly ignorant, and obtained much of his wealth by trickery & deception.
What is there left to trust?
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  #822  
Old 11-29-2016, 11:56 PM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
I'm not from the United States, so don't have a vested interest in any of the candidates.

From a philosophical perspective though, voting for Trump over Clinton can only be good thing for the United States and good for the world.

The reason being that Clinton is cut from the cloth of the high level of debt, invading people's countries in order to service that debt and further integration among nations from all parts of the globe entourage; and more importantly she is the epitome of the system.

What does the United States owe China these days? Over a trillion? That is a recipe for the decline of the United States. It is long understood that whomever owns the debt, owns the borrowing nation. The United States understands that because it's exactly what they did to us 100 years ago. In the words of Woodrow Wilson: "keep lending to the British and they'll soon be dancing to our tune". I think it was Wilson, could have been one of his close advisers.

While Trump might not be the answer, he is certainly more likely to focus on the basics for the United States. Research, development, production of home grown goods etc; unlike Clinton who is more of the same. I don't understand how you can think that Clinton is the better bet for your family - the way these people have been going on they will lead you into a major war that could change the United States forever. I don't mean waltzing into Iraq and stealing their resources with thousands of American soldiers dying in the process. I mean a major war such as WW1 with millions of Americans losing their lives.

It's good for the world because, like our decision to leave the European Union, it sends the message out that people aren't prepared to keep sleep walking along with the system. That can only be good for everyone and with a bit of luck it will rub off on a few more around the world.

Human beings aren't built to all be the same, and a spread of ideas is healthy; and so the United States moving away from the politics they have espoused for say 50 years now, at least, can only be beneficial to everyone.

Why in the world you would want US politics to be more European in nature is beyond me, considering that the United States has some outstanding values and was once the next step in freedom. The last thing you should be doing is adopting European policies, and the first thing you should be doing is getting back to what made the United States a great nation - in my opinion.
But Donald Trump's economic plans threaten to drown the economy in an ocean of debt! In fact, it's predicted they will add a staggering $7.2 trillion dollars to the national debt over the next decade, whereas Clinton's plans would have actually reduced the debt: http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/.../#5136195b195f. Mind you, what do you expect from the self proclaimed King of Debt, who's business acumen resulted in six of his own companies by ing declared bankrupt: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ared-bankrupt/

As for his protectionism: if you think that's a great idea you might want to look up the consequences of the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act.

As for Brexit, there's not a single economic forecast that says that will be good for the economy. Of course, it could be argued that the decision was justified on the grounds of reclaiming sovereignty. However, the recent argument that Britain should appoint Farage as ambassador to the U.S, out of fear of offending Trump for not doing so, demonstrates that even that's delusionary thinking.

You might also want to look at this article, which highlights how completely farcical our Brexit "plan" actually is: https://infacts.org/handwritten-note...d-brexit-plan/

Last edited by John G : 11-30-2016 at 12:25 AM.
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  #823  
Old 11-30-2016, 06:36 AM
Patrick S Patrick S is offline
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Germans could have stopped Hitler if they had moved against him in the 1930's, by the time they waited "to give him a chance?", he became too strong to oppose.
Look what happened then....

In truth, I don't really expect Trump to become another dictator, it's just that history does repeat itself, and the only reason it does is because 'we' are often too naive to believe "it could all happen again".
Why don't we ever learn?

We already know Trump is a perpetual liar, incredibly ignorant, and obtained much of his wealth by trickery & deception.
What is there left to trust?
So we have Trump becoming a dictator? Trump as Hitler. Wonderful stuff. Sadly, not very original, though.

And to think, he's not even in office yet! Right-wingers said precisely the same things about Obama: He's going to abolish the 22nd Amendment and become president for life. He's going to take away all the guns, abolish borders, require whites to pay reparations, completely outlaw oil and coal, disarm the Unites States, seize and redistribute wealth. Of course, Fox News was thrilled to play it all up. Of course, here we are. Obama - with a few exceptions like his position on gay marriage and the affordable care act -was essentially George Bush who was essentially Bill Clinton who was indistinguishable from George H.W. Bush who was Reagan v2.0 (who thankfully was NOT Jimmy Carter). U.S. Presidents are not German chancellors or dictators. They exist within a much more constrained system with a limited ability to affect the path of the nation (which is much more dependent upon economic movers than presidents - contrary to what they might have us believe).

So, let's save the Hitler comparisons for later. Take a break from the handwringing. Turn off MSNBC and CNN for a few weeks. Watch a movie or two. Sports are a good option. You'll feel better and you won't be worried about Hitler quite so much. My guess is that Trump will do his best presidential impersonation for four years and then he'll move on down the road. If he over-reaches in the short-term and doesn't play by the rules and/or makes the wrong kind of enemies, he'll be impeached (wouldn't shock me in the least) and we'll continue with business as usual in Washington.

The truth is simple: Most everyone who voted for Trump (I did NOT) did so realizing he was never option 1A. But, he has one thing that differentiates him from everyone else: He's not a politician. Of course, he may be something much worse (if that's possible). But the electorate is willing to take the chance because Washington is broken, corrupt, backward. It's like a baseball team signing a hitter who is guaranteed to lead the league in strikeouts but may just run into 40+ homeruns. Maybe he'll hit a few big ones along the way that will get you into the playoffs. Think Chris Davis, Adam Dunn, or Dave Kingman.

So, yeah. Let's hold off worrying that Trump is Hitler. Let's instead think of him as Dave Kingman. Does that help you at all? Feel better?

Last edited by Patrick S : 11-30-2016 at 07:00 AM.
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  #824  
Old 11-30-2016, 07:11 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick S View Post
So we have Trump becoming a dictator? Trump as Hitler. Wonderful stuff. Sadly, not very original, though.

And to think, he's not even in office yet! Right-wingers said precisely the same things about Obama: He's going to abolish the 22nd Amendment and become president for life. He's going to take away all the guns, abolish borders, require whites to pay reparations, completely outlaw oil and coal, disarm the Unites States, seize and redistribute wealth. Of course, Fox News was thrilled to play it all up. Of course, here we are. Obama - with a few exceptions like his position on gay marriage and the affordable care act -was essentially George Bush who was essentially Bill Clinton who was indistinguishable from George H.W. Bush who was Reagan v2.0 (who thankfully was NOT Jimmy Carter). U.S. Presidents are not German chancellors or dictators. They exist within a much more constrained system with a limited ability to affect the path of the nation (which is much more dependent upon economic movers than presidents - contrary to what they might have us believe).

So, let's save the Hitler comparisons for later. Take a break from the handwringing. Turn off MSNBC and CNN for a few weeks. Watch a movie or two. Sports are a good option. You'll feel better and you won't be worried about Hitler quite so much. My guess is that Trump will do his best presidential impersonation for four years and then he'll move on down the road. If he over-reaches in the short-term and doesn't play by the rules and/or makes the wrong kind of enemies, he'll be impeached (wouldn't shock me in the least) and we'll continue with business as usual in Washington.

The truth is simple: Most everyone who voted for Trump (I did NOT) did so realizing he was never option 1A. But, he has one thing that differentiates him from everyone else: He's not a politician. Of course, he may be something much worse (if that's possible). But the electorate is willing to take the chance because Washington is broken, corrupt, backward. It's like a baseball team signing a hitter who is guaranteed to lead the league in strikeouts but may just run into 40+ homeruns. Maybe he'll hit a few big ones along the way that will get you into the playoffs. Think Chris Davis, Adam Dunn, or Dave Kingman.

So, yeah. Let's hold off worrying that Trump is Hitler. Let's instead think of him as Dave Kingman. Does that help you at all? Feel better?
LOL! great post
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #825  
Old 11-30-2016, 01:12 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Originally Posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
Devon is nice enough. Love Plymouth and that area - beings to mind the days of smuggling!

And, there's nothing better than being at the coast when it's raining. Give me rain over sun at the coast any day! That's the beauty of England, our moody landscapes.

And, yes, let's get back to The Don. I hear the Mexicans have handed over a few quid for the wall.
Would love to visit Devon one day. Mt family were prominent there about 6 generations ago.
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  #826  
Old 11-30-2016, 01:53 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick S View Post
So we have Trump becoming a dictator? Trump as Hitler. Wonderful stuff. Sadly, not very original, though.


So, let's save the Hitler comparisons for later.
Yes, lets wait.
Lets wait 'till he try's to throw anyone he chooses in prison for exercising their 1st Amendment rights.
He already threatened students on his twitter feed with prison, but their rights are protected by the constitution. Didn't he know, or is it he didn't care?

Does anyone seriously believe Comrade Trump cares about the rights of the common people?

When Ronnie Regan was in the White House people wondered if Nancy was really pulling the strings. After January when Comrade Trump takes over the question will become, is Putin really pulling the strings.

Saturday Night Live have some priceless material for the next four years.
Oh, and by the way. He threatened to close them down too.

Hush,..I think I heard someone whisper.....dictator?
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  #827  
Old 11-30-2016, 02:13 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Our democracy allows criticism of the government, and I've lived long enough to remember the burning of things like flags and draft cards at demonstrations.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/29/politi...alty-proposal/

I was told that Trump said he only suggested the same penalty Hilary Clinton had when she co-sponsored what CNN calls "another failed attempt to criminalize flag burning" -- I think his idea of "pranking" the media and the press with his outrageous scheme to "take away the citizenship of anyone who burns an American flag" is a bit juvenile. The President shouldn't be elected for his entertainment value.
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Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
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  #828  
Old 11-30-2016, 02:15 PM
sdreid sdreid is offline
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Trump is a master at playing the press-good for him.
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  #829  
Old 11-30-2016, 02:25 PM
Patrick S Patrick S is offline
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Yes, lets wait.
Lets wait 'till he try's to throw anyone he chooses in prison for exercising their 1st Amendment rights.
He already threatened students on his twitter feed with prison, but their rights are protected by the constitution. Didn't he know, or is it he didn't care?

Does anyone seriously believe Comrade Trump cares about the rights of the common people?

When Ronnie Regan was in the White House people wondered if Nancy was really pulling the strings. After January when Comrade Trump takes over the question will become, is Putin really pulling the strings.

Saturday Night Live have some priceless material for the next four years.
Oh, and by the way. He threatened to close them down too.

Hush,..I think I heard someone whisper.....dictator?
You sold me. He's Hitler. Let's do something.........hmmmm.....You go first. I'm open to suggestions. What should we do? I mean, I've already been to a few of the "safe spaces" around town to cry about it. I watched Rachael Maddow 'till I passed out from boredom. I've hitched all my wagons to the Stein/Clinton recount caravan and that seems like a longshot at this point. What should we do? Take up arms? March on Washington? Stage a coup? All because we're scared of what Trump might do? Scared because the party he beat in the election tells us to be? Tells us he's Putin's puppet? I mean, I was scared because I watched too much Fox News when Obama was elected! They told me Bill Ayers was going to be running the show and that Reverend Wright was a tell-tale sign that Obama hated America and was going to sell us all down the river. They told me revolt would be impossible because he was coming for my gun. They told me he'd be around forever because the 22nd Amendment was going to be kaput! Man! I can't believe the sun is still shining..... But Trump is different. This time it's serious! Tell you what, call me when you form your militia. I may be out of town that day, but just check in. Let me know how it's going.

Also, I'm curious about this Putin connection. I mean, is Trump a member of the fascist right who are going to abolish Roe and eliminate the social safety net, or is he "Comrade" Trump, secret communist and best friend of Putin? I mean, he can't be both, right? Wait. He's Hitler AND Stalin! Man...this sounds really bad! We have to do something! But...what? I don't know. Oh, heck. You lead. I'll follow.
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  #830  
Old 11-30-2016, 04:00 PM
Ginger Ginger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcdunn View Post
Our democracy allows criticism of the government, and I've lived long enough to remember the burning of things like flags and draft cards at demonstrations.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/29/politi...alty-proposal/

I was told that Trump said he only suggested the same penalty Hilary Clinton had when she co-sponsored what CNN calls "another failed attempt to criminalize flag burning" -- I think his idea of "pranking" the media and the press with his outrageous scheme to "take away the citizenship of anyone who burns an American flag" is a bit juvenile. The President shouldn't be elected for his entertainment value.
I think it's purely tactical on his part. He's not even in office yet, and he's got his opponents making public ninnies of themselves, running around screaming like little girls before anything has even happened. Every time they over-react to an obvious troll, the ACLU's and their fellow-travellers' credibility dwindles. When they do so before realizing that it's something their champion already suggested... well...

Interestingly (to me, at least), he's also caused Senator Manchin to take a bizarre "nuanced" stand in which he speaks with hearty approval of extrajudicial violence against flag burners, but opposes any change to the law.

I voted for Trump for what he could do for America, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to turn my back on his solid-gold entertainment value!
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Last edited by Ginger : 11-30-2016 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Spelling
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