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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Letters and Communications > Goulston Street Graffito

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  #71  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:39 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
I don't foresee this as a long thread but I thought that I'd try and get a few opinions. I imagine that if we took a poll asking if the GSG was written by Jack or not that the 'nots' would win? Possibly even by a significant margin. I've always leaned toward the opinion that it was. I'm a little like Cadosche though; just on the other side of the fence. So perhaps I should have called this thread 'can we profile the writer of the GSG?'

My point is one that I imagine has been made before, more than once, so apologies for going over old ground but hey, this is a forum about 1888 after all!

A thing that's always interested in me and I've wondered if it's at all suggestive is the fact that the writer managed to spell 'blamed' and 'nothing' correctly whilst mis-spelling the word 'Jews.' With the double negative hinting at a not-so-good grasp of basic grammar and the spelling of 'juwes' showing poor spelling the impression that we get is of someone of poor education. But if he could spell two tricky words correctly and yet get a simpler one wrong are we dealing with someone trying to downplay or hide his level of education? If so, then surely someone would only do that if they felt that their level of education was considerably above that of an average Whitechapel resident? The writing was also said to be in a good schoolboy hand hinting at decent penmanship.

So what can we deduce if anything?

Could the spelling of 'juwes' have been a deliberate insult. An example of 'I'm not even going to spell your name correctly.' Like someone talking to Nigel Farrage but pronouncing his surname to rhyme with marriage instead of barrage as an insult.

Was Jack a decently educated man who had come down in the world? Perhaps someone who blamed the Jews and prostitutes for the degraded area in which he was forced to live? Perhaps he felt that the Jews never received any blame for the 'harm' that they had caused? Perhaps the double negative is also mocking local speech and the locals poor education? So can we also see a man who sees himself as superior to those around him. Someone to whom fate has been cruel?

Someone who felt justified in taking revenge?
There are two perspectives: Misspelling and misreading. The first concept is a small box where the same answers are produced over and over again. Thinking from the other perspective is almost never discussed.

And yet the ONLY word in the GSG that is not understood is the word Juwes.

So the author could spell.

But was the GSG clearly readable?

Obviously not. The evidence is that there were different versions of the interpretation of the text produced depending on who produced them.

Pierre
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  #72  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:33 PM
John G John G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
There are two perspectives: Misspelling and misreading. The first concept is a small box where the same answers are produced over and over again. Thinking from the other perspective is almost never discussed.

And yet the ONLY word in the GSG that is not understood is the word Juwes.

So the author could spell.

But was the GSG clearly readable?

Obviously not. The evidence is that there were different versions of the interpretation of the text produced depending on who produced them.

Pierre
He could correctly spell certain words. We are not entitled to infer from that fact that he could correctly spell all words.
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  #73  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:52 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
He could correctly spell certain words. We are not entitled to infer from that fact that he could correctly spell all words.
We can only infer from the GSG. All of the words in the GSG except from one word were spelled correctly.

The interpretations of the GSG were different between persons who read it.

Therefore we must also discuss misreading.
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  #74  
Old 08-12-2017, 01:07 PM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
We can only infer from the GSG. All of the words in the GSG except from one word were spelled correctly.

The interpretations of the GSG were different between persons who read it.

Therefore we must also discuss misreading.
Yes, one out of twelve words are spelt incorrectly. Nothing particularly significant about that: people misspell words all the time. Put simply, its not the same as one in a thousand words being incorrectly spelt, which would be significant.

And, as has already been pointed out, there was also a grammatical error indicating the author did not have a perfect command of the English language.
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  #75  
Old 08-12-2017, 01:37 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John G View Post
Yes, one out of twelve words are spelt incorrectly. Nothing particularly significant about that: people misspell words all the time. Put simply, its not the same as one in a thousand words being incorrectly spelt, which would be significant.

And, as has already been pointed out, there was also a grammatical error indicating the author did not have a perfect command of the English language.
Hi John,

My original point was that you would have thought it likely, though not impossible of course, that someone who could spell 'nothing' and 'blamed' could be expected to spell 'jews' correctly. Therefore could the mis-spelling have been deliberate? Of course, it might not have been. But because I believe that on most occasions someone being able to spell the two longer words would be equally able to spell the shorter one I think that it's at least possible that the mid-spelling was intentional. If it was, then why?
If we dismiss the Masonic connection, and I do, all that I can think of is either that it was meant as insulting or dismissive of Jews, or that it was mis-spelt intentionally for another reason. The only one that I can come up with is to give the impression of being less educated than he actually was.
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  #76  
Old 08-12-2017, 02:10 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi All,

We don't know the exact composition of the GSG. We don't know what was wrongly spelled or grammatically incorrect.

It's all guesswork based upon a pathetic example of evidence gathering by the cops.

All we have to go on are the various transcriptions of the City of London and Metropolitan Police officers.

Between them, they offered a bewildering combination of seven variations as to the GSG's spelling, grammar, capitalization and linage.

Who knows where the faults lay?

Regards,

Simon
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Last edited by Simon Wood : 08-12-2017 at 02:12 PM. Reason: spolling mistook
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  #77  
Old 08-12-2017, 02:14 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Hello Abby,

You are quite right about that but the key word is "opinion." And again, even if we knew with certainty that the killer wrote it what can we conclude?

c.d.
Not much. But maybe everything.

What are the only two pieces of direct evidence that specifically use and or implicate Jews?

The gsg and George Hutchinson's suspect. One following right after another.

NOt only that but I think the gsg and hutchs ostentatiously dressed Jewish suspect both exhibit signs of dislike, jealousy and blame.
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  #78  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:22 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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You can't profile since we do not know who wrote it.

The only way the police could have tested whether the graffito was written by the killer or not, was to have Long demonstrate what he did when he checked the Goulston doorway at 2:20 AM.,,where he shone the light,and whether there was a chance the graffito could be seen or not. Back from the police station,Long was in Goulston St. at 5:00 AM,the graffito was rubbed out at 5:30 am.
Otherwise they would have to wait till somebody admitted to writing it.Since nobody admitted writing it,that went for the killer having written it but that's about it.It was all just hunches.

Halse's "It looked fresh, and if it had been done long before it would have been rubbed out by the people passing. I did not notice whether there was any powdered chalk on the ground" did not mean anything,since it's a doubt one could have determined if the chalk was used 1- to several hours before.

Last edited by Varqm : 08-12-2017 at 03:24 PM.
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  #79  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:25 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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I completely agree that we can't accurately profile the writer of the GSG (whether he was Jack or not.) All I intended was an interpretation based on one particular viewpoint. Based on all viewpoints we could come up with several, what might be more accurately described as, mini-profiles.
This is why I suggested that Jack could have been a decently educated man who felt addrieved or angry that he had come down in the world and that he saw Jews and prostitutes as the reason that the area that he'd been forced to live in was such a horrible place. Many believe that the crimes were primarily sexual; maybe they weren't? Who knows?
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  #80  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:00 AM
John G John G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Hi John,

My original point was that you would have thought it likely, though not impossible of course, that someone who could spell 'nothing' and 'blamed' could be expected to spell 'jews' correctly. Therefore could the mis-spelling have been deliberate? Of course, it might not have been. But because I believe that on most occasions someone being able to spell the two longer words would be equally able to spell the shorter one I think that it's at least possible that the mid-spelling was intentional. If it was, then why?
If we dismiss the Masonic connection, and I do, all that I can think of is either that it was meant as insulting or dismissive of Jews, or that it was mis-spelt intentionally for another reason. The only one that I can come up with is to give the impression of being less educated than he actually was.
Hi Herlock,

I've seen even reasonably educated people make errors with simple words, such as using "to" when they mean "too." In fact, I'm prone to the odd spelling mistake myself, particularly if I'm writing quickly, although these days I can usually pass it off as a predictive text error!

It's possible that he was trying to present himself as less educated, but then why spell the other words correctly? And exactly how much of an advantage would that have given him? I mean, I'm sure the police wouldn't have excluded an educated suspect simply on the basis of the GSG.

It should also be remembered that Whitechapel was home to a sizeable immigrant population. We cannot therefore assume that English was the first language of the author.
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