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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Barnett, Joseph

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  #21  
Old 07-12-2012, 03:56 PM
Heinrich Heinrich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Heinrich. Thanks. All I can say is that Gareth was one of our finest ripper students. He most likely checked these times with medical people. (What is face validity?)
Face validity refers to the truth of a claim based on the likelihood of it being true. It is unlikely that Mary Kelly would have been boozing it up at 10 p.m. then had fish and potato breakfast at 6 a.m. and was having a jar again at 10 a.m. only to be mutilated beyond recognition before the discovery at the murder scene in her dwelling minutes later. The sociopathic killer hardly saw himself in the role of a contestant on Beat the Clock with a plan of action to quickly remove each organ and membrane to use in decorating the bedside table in the least amount of time during mid-morning on a public holiday. The story is implausible on the face of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
I agree about Lewis' story; however, there were no fewer than 3 stories agreeing that MJK was alive after sunup. Make of that what you will.
None of the three stories lend support to any other and are unworthy of credence in the absence of corroboration.
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  #22  
Old 07-12-2012, 04:29 PM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
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Hi Heinrich,
I am not that proud of my younger days, many a time have I had a night-times drinking, followed in the morning by my previous nights dinner[ which included fish and chips] then it was off to the pub with the lads at lunchtime...these things happen.
But I am glad to say I never got murdered..
Witnesses such as Maxwell, and Mr Lewis, simply cannot be cast aside, because they don't sound plausible, for our so called ''Logical '' minds,
As I have previously said, this thread was about the sighting by Lewis on the Thursday night, which had her drinking with Dan?, and asking why he was not more prominent in investigations?
Regards Richard.
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  #23  
Old 07-12-2012, 04:51 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default Sociopaths R Us

Hello Heinrich. Thanks.

"The sociopathic killer hardly saw himself in the role of a contestant on Beat the Clock with a plan of action to quickly remove each organ and membrane to use in decorating the bedside table in the least amount of time during mid-morning on a public holiday."

How do we know that MJK's killer was a sociopath? How do we know his motives?

"The story is implausible on the face of it."

I find most of the theorising on MJK implausible--most of all, that she succumbed to a serial killer.

"None of the three stories lend support to any other and are unworthy of credence in the absence of corroboration."

Well, they DO corroborate one another in that each has MJK up and about after sunup. As I say, make of that what you will.

Cheers.
LC
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2012, 05:13 PM
Heinrich Heinrich is offline
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Originally Posted by richardnunweek View Post
...
As I have previously said, this thread was about the sighting by Lewis on the Thursday night, which had her drinking with Dan?, and asking why he was not more prominent in investigations?
Regards Richard.
The problem for you, Richard, is that no one believes Lewis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
How do we know that MJK's killer was a sociopath? How do we know his motives?
The excess of mutilation is characteristic of a man without an ounce of normalcy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
I find most of the theorising on MJK implausible--most of all, that she succumbed to a serial killer.
So do I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Well, they DO corroborate one another in that each has MJK up and about after sunup. As I say, make of that what you will.
Little, if anything, should be made of the sightings on the morning after Mary Kelly was murdered as they do not agree on location or time.
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  #25  
Old 07-12-2012, 06:34 PM
Sally Sally is offline
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Quote:
The excess of mutilation is characteristic of a man without an ounce of normalcy.
Uh Oh. There goes Bad Joe Barnett off the suspect list. He was just another ordinary Joe after all...
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  #26  
Old 07-12-2012, 09:45 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default normalcy

Hello Heinrich. Thanks.

"The excess of mutilation is characteristic of a man without an ounce of normalcy."

Completely agree. But can one be abnormal and yet not sociopathic?

Cheers.
LC
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  #27  
Old 07-12-2012, 10:29 PM
Heinrich Heinrich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally View Post
Uh Oh. There goes Bad Joe Barnett off the suspect list. He was just another ordinary Joe after all...
There is nothing "ordinary" about a dosser who wanted to freeload on a local prostitute while attempting to control her movements and associations and who resorted to stalking her after many arguments and leaving her home. He had odd echolalia speech and finally butchered the unfortunate victim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
"The excess of mutilation is characteristic of a man without an ounce of normalcy."

Completely agree. But can one be abnormal and yet not sociopathic?
Characteristic of sociopathy is a lack of concern for others, unable to be empathic or remorseful. Mary Kelly was made an object of jealous rage and her mutilation was an attempt to rob her of even the appearance of humanity. The creep got away with murder.
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  #28  
Old 07-12-2012, 10:37 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello Heinrich. Thanks.

"Characteristic of sociopathy is a lack of concern for others, unable to be empathic or remorseful."

Hmm, I worked for these chaps when I was a dustman. (heh-heh)

"Mary Kelly was made an object of jealous rage. . . "

Rage? Perhaps. Jealous? Don't know. Possible.

" . . . and her mutilation was an attempt to rob her of even the appearance of humanity."

Or to keep her from being recognised. Or to obliterate her. Or . . .

Cheers.
LC
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  #29  
Old 07-12-2012, 10:46 PM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
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Quote:
There is nothing "ordinary" about a dosser who wanted to freeload on a local prostitute while attempting to control her movements and associations and who resorted to stalking her after many arguments and leaving her home. He had odd echolalia speech and finally butchered the unfortunate victim.
I agree...so we're looking for an obsessive repetitive pimp with controlling homicidal tendencies and no sat-nav...shouldn't be that difficult to find one, they're pretty common...
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  #30  
Old 07-12-2012, 10:58 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardnunweek View Post
Hello Lynn,
For argument sake, lets say that Mr Lewis saw Kelly around 10am on the 9TH, in Ringers,
Around ten would be most likely , not precise,It could be 950-1010am, if the former, both Mary and a man[ maybe Maxwell's market porter] could have been back in her room by 1005am, and her killer out and gone by 1035am, leaving a full ten minutes [ or so] before Bowyers visit.
We should not forget our Jack worked very rapid, and he hardly hung around at Mitre square on the 30TH?.
I have never understood, why so many people have entertained the thought that the Ripper made himself at home in room13, he would have been in a frenzy, desperate to achieve his aim ,and get the hell out of there.
I almost get the impression many have, the killer, lighting a fire, making tea, and toast , during a long leisurely blood bath.
I do not subscribe to that, and I agree with Sam Flynn's interpretation.
Regards Richard.
Hi Richard

I have never understood, why so many people have entertained the thought that the Ripper made himself at home in room13,

Because he could.
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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