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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Barnett, Joseph

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  #11  
Old 11-05-2012, 04:52 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default Morgestern

Hello Phil.

"I think someone was identified near Stepney gas works as a possible candidate, but I have seen no more."

Yes. A Dutch chap, Morgestern. He was married with children if I recall properly.

Cheers.
LC
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2012, 05:44 PM
Phil H Phil H is offline
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Thanks, Lynn

Richard

I would have thought that any old flame of Kelly's who killed her in such a manner, would have been doing the one thing that would make a thorough, stone-turning police investigation an absolute certainty. He might as well have left a message on the wall reading "Please put all your best men on this case and do not rest until you catch me."

But they were looking for a SERIAL KILLER and may have their minds set on that. Did they ever really consider an intimate as killer? or did they ASSUME "Jack" dunnit from the off? They interviewed Barnett, but he was someone who knew about MJK and had lived with her very recently. Did they ever contact Fleming or Moganstone?

I am not saying I have a solution, I am just setting out my instinctive responses to what I read. The killer knew how to move around the room, left no foot prints in all that blood so far as we are aware, may have known about the way to open the door...

Phil H

Last edited by Phil H : 11-05-2012 at 05:45 PM. Reason: tweaks.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2012, 06:43 PM
Robert Robert is offline
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Hi Phil

I think the police would have tried to trace Kelly's previous boyfriends, just as they tried to trace Kelly's family, and just as the City Police tried to trace Conway. The police are, after all, creatures of habit like all of us, and they would have started by looking at those closest to the deceased and those who had been close to her. If such a person were to come under suspicion for the present crime, there would have been the added bonus that he just might have turned out to be the Ripper. I doubt if Barnett's being able to provide an alibi for the previous murders would have swayed them, if only because I doubt if Barnett could have provided such an alibi. I don't have my books to hand, but I believe the time of Barnett losing his job is traditionally taken to be August. Unless Barnett could point to his doing some kind of (recorded) work on the night of one of the previous murders, or unless he was banged up in a police cell, how could he prove where he was? Lodging house records wouldn't have helped, as he was living with Kelly until the end of October. So I think the police would have questioned him very closely about the Kelly murder. Apparently his story held up. If his story hadn't satisfied them, I'm sure they'd have had him in the frame for the Kelly murder and for all the other murders, but this seems not to have arisen.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2012, 07:34 PM
Phil H Phil H is offline
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Robert, I don't disagree with you.

But your post begins, "I think..." so it too is supposition. We don't know.

...the police would have tried to trace Kelly's previous boyfriends, just as they tried to trace Kelly's family, and just as the City Police tried to trace Conway.

I am sure you are correct, but...

The police are, after all, creatures of habit like all of us, and they would have started by looking at those closest to the deceased and those who had been close to her.

They certainly seem to have talked to a lot of people locally - IF ONLY WE HAD THE FULL FILES!!!!

If such a person were to come under suspicion for the present crime, there would have been the added bonus that he just might have turned out to be the Ripper.

Again you may be right, but I feel there is room to speculate.

I doubt if Barnett's being able to provide an alibi for the previous murders would have swayed them, if only because I doubt if Barnett could have provided such an alibi.

I doubt it too - but you never know...

I don't have my books to hand, but I believe the time of Barnett losing his job is traditionally taken to be August. Unless Barnett could point to his doing some kind of (recorded) work on the night of one of the previous murders, or unless he was banged up in a police cell, how could he prove where he was?

How did he prove where he was at the time MJK died? When did she die? Presumably he would have done the same for other nights.

I think the police would have questioned him very closely about the Kelly murder. Apparently his story held up.

They did - but WHAT did they ask him. Many murderes have escaped having been interviewed once - did not Peter Sutcliffe (I am no criminologist)?

If his story hadn't satisfied them, I'm sure they'd have had him in the frame for the Kelly murder and for all the other murders, but this seems not to have arisen.

Maybe he was clever.

You are, as I said at the beginning of this post, probably right. But I no longer accept at face value all the old assumptions. I have opened my mind to several murderers (at least two, maybe three for the five canonicals).

There is something about MJK's murder that has never added up for me. I have tried to set down briefly what that those concerns are earlier in this thread. Barnett and Fleming remain in my sights - as does a Fenian connection if one could be demonstrated.

Phil H
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2012, 07:56 PM
Robert Robert is offline
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Phil, I agree. Nothing is set in stone and we can only go by the balance of probabilities.

I am not an anti-matter version of Heinrich.
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  #16  
Old 11-12-2012, 03:20 PM
RavenDarkendale RavenDarkendale is offline
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Assuming guilt of serial killers is why many murders go unsolved. As was the case with Wayne Williams, Ted Bundy, and most notoriously, Henry Lee Lucas. Easier to blame the Devil you know than to actually investigate to see if it was the Devil you don't know. I always thought the Miller's Court murder was a personal thing...
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  #17  
Old 11-23-2012, 01:08 AM
Brenda Brenda is offline
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Default .

This is from CNN about a man named Glen Rogers who is claiming that he committed the OJ Simpson murders:

"Rogers and O.J. Simpson's cases don't match except that all the victims were stabbed. Rogers was a good-looking guy. He would go to bars, pick up women, court them, sometimes live with them a while, then kill them. The one victim he murdered in L.A., he killed the night he met her."

It just reminded me of Barnett living with Kelly. I've always had strong suspicions about Barnett, I do believe he could have killed MJK and possibly have been JTR also. He was certainly a man under a lot of pressure....he'd lost his job (which could mean life or death in Whitechapel), lost his woman, and his home.

But as with all JTR suspects, no evidence...or at least not enough evidence.
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2012, 12:42 AM
ChainzCooper ChainzCooper is offline
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Rogers is completely full of CRAP. I usually like the Discovery channel but I am rethinking my position after they aired that garbage. And the media like the ignorant trolls they are just go along with it giving Rogers exactly what he wants, just disgusting. I can't imagine how bad Nicole and Ron's families feel about this god is there any way Orenthal and Rogers can be executed like tonight
Jordan
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