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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #471  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:21 AM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West Sussex UK
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Default Tommy

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

Rudyard Kipling

Sadly Garry/Jon, nothing changes...

Dave
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  #472  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:22 PM
curious curious is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Wroe View Post
A young widow might, Curious, but then we only have Kelly's word for it that she was ever married to Davi(e)s. Given the dubious nature of many of her other claims, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was yet another of her Barnett- or Fleming-like relationships.
I agree with you, Garry.

I had meant to put widow in quotes to indicate that perhaps MJK was simply telling the story of being a widow, which would garner sympathy in the pub and win new friends.

It was just a thought of how MJK might have been able to fit briefly into the Buki/Buckey household which does not appear to have taken in boarders.

Youngsters bring home some some unlikely people sometimes. As I said, nothing but speculation . . . but something that might reasonably have occurred since there was a daughter of about the right age for a friend. Then, by the time MJK was killed, Matilda Jr. was a respectably married woman and there was no way she would publicly admit to having ever been friends with MJK.
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  #473  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:56 PM
Garry Wroe Garry Wroe is offline
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No explanation required, Curious. I recognized that you were merely exploring the possibilities. That said, I do think that there is a tendency to accept Kelly's claimed marriage as factual, and this despite the evidence that she doesn't appear to have been the marrying kind. We know, for example, that she and Fleming were extremely fond of one another, and that Fleming was apparently keen on marrying her. One gets the feeling that Barnett would also have married her given half a chance, and yet Kelly elected to remain single in both cases. Based upon what little we know of her, therefore, I'm inclined to the view that the Davi(e)s relationship is unlikely to have resulted in a formal marriage. If it did, it would have been very much out of character.
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  #474  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:27 PM
curious curious is offline
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Location: Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Wroe View Post
No explanation required, Curious. I recognized that you were merely exploring the possibilities. That said, I do think that there is a tendency to accept Kelly's claimed marriage as factual, and this despite the evidence that she doesn't appear to have been the marrying kind. We know, for example, that she and Fleming were extremely fond of one another, and that Fleming was apparently keen on marrying her. One gets the feeling that Barnett would also have married her given half a chance, and yet Kelly elected to remain single in both cases. Based upon what little we know of her, therefore, I'm inclined to the view that the Davi(e)s relationship is unlikely to have resulted in a formal marriage. If it did, it would have been very much out of character.
Or an early marriage could have been so terrible she was determined to never do that to herself again.

I have no idea what to make of Kelly, and realize I'm in good company.
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  #475  
Old 04-28-2012, 01:23 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Wroe View Post
Based upon what little we know of her, therefore, I'm inclined to the view that the Davi(e)s relationship is unlikely to have resulted in a formal marriage. If it did, it would have been very much out of character.
So long as no marriage certificate has surfaced, which I think Chris confirmed, it is reasonable to conclude it did not happen. In other words, there is no benefit with respect to establishing the identity of MJK for anyone to believe it did.

Regards, Jon S.
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Regards, Jon S.
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