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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1611  
Old 11-02-2017, 03:02 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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In this description of muscles of the abdominal wall as 'slips of flesh' we are told they come in various shapes and sizes:

'Common sense on the mechanical pathology and treatment of chronic diseases of the male and female systems'
by Banning, Edmund P., (Prior), b. 1810

Publication date 1852

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  #1612  
Old 11-02-2017, 03:14 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
Flaps...

"Something flat and broad that is attached at one side only and hangs loosely or covers an opening: the flap of an envelope; the flap of a pocket.
Either of the two segments of a book jacket folding under the book's front and back covers. One leaf of a folding door, shutter, or the like
."

I think that sort of validates Debs thinking, that an accurate use of the word Flaps would imply attachment also. In which case any surface and sub-surface "segment" that was wholly removed should not have been referred to by that word. I believe Mary had "flaps, of forehead skin covering her eyes,.... used appropriately there.
Yes. I'm not sure they had much choice than to use 'flap' as a description, Michael. Medical texts don't appear to discuss separate portions of flesh until plastic surgery and skin grafting became more popular and maybe 'slip' was Hebbert's attempt at differentiation.
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  #1613  
Old 11-02-2017, 04:51 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
In this description of muscles of the abdominal wall as 'slips of flesh' we are told they come in various shapes and sizes:

'Common sense on the mechanical pathology and treatment of chronic diseases of the male and female systems'
by Banning, Edmund P., (Prior), b. 1810

Publication date 1852

Various sizes and shapes - I guess that about covers it, Debra. Good find!
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  #1614  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:07 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Various sizes and shapes - I guess that about covers it, Debra. Good find!
and since this (hopefully) puts this line of debate to bed, I would like to once more return to fishes original pertinent question to see if anyone has discovered two eviscerating serial killers working in the same place at the same time.

I have a fairly good knowledge of other serial killers but I haven't found anything, so at this point, my answer would be no. Unless anyone can find anything.

I think this is a very important question as we can see how common, or rare, this is, and compare to the likelihood of if Torso man and the ripper where one in the same.
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  #1615  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:54 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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"Two hours west of Toronto, along Highway 401, lies the small city of London, Ontario. Known as the Forest City, the town is the birthplace of Justin Bieber, Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams. And between 1959 and 1984, it was home to the largest known concentration of serial killers in the world. Over the course of 25 years, the town was shaken by 29 gruesome murders. Thirteen of those murders were attributed to three killers who were eventually caught and convicted: Gerald Thomas Archer, known as the London Chamber Maid Slayer, Christian McGee, known as the Mad Slasher, and Russell Johnson, known as the Balcony Killer. Sixteen of the murders have remained unsolved, but a new book based on recovered police files offers a new theory on this bloody chapter in the town’s history, unmasking two alleged serial killers in the process.

Dennis Alsop, a detective sergeant with the Ontario provincial police, was based in the London area between 1950 and 1979. He kept all of his notes and research on the murders hidden until he died in 2012
."

Multiple killers operating within the same small geographical area, within the same time period.

"Over the past two decades, the citizens of Baton Rouge and its outskirts have been hunted by no less than five serial killers. Close to 70 men and women have been taken since around 1997, when authorities started noticing unusual patterns forming in their murder statistics. In fact at least five serial killers who have operated in the area independently of each other since 1995. The others include Sean Vincent Gillis, Jefferey Guillory and Ronald Dominique (who preyed exclusively in gay men). The fifth, named “Jennings killer” after the district (just south of Baton Rouge) his victims come from, has been linked to the murders of at least eight women and remains unidentified and at large."
And again.

"According to former chief of the FBI's Elite Serial Crime Unit, John Douglas, there are 25 to 50 active serial killers in the United States at any given moment. Today. Right now."

People seem to feel that Douglas offers insights into these Ripper cases, maybe they should know that the above are also his insights.

There are many cases of multiple serial killers that overlapped in both time frame and location.
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  #1616  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:26 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
"Two hours west of Toronto, along Highway 401, lies the small city of London, Ontario. Known as the Forest City, the town is the birthplace of Justin Bieber, Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams. And between 1959 and 1984, it was home to the largest known concentration of serial killers in the world. Over the course of 25 years, the town was shaken by 29 gruesome murders. Thirteen of those murders were attributed to three killers who were eventually caught and convicted: Gerald Thomas Archer, known as the London Chamber Maid Slayer, Christian McGee, known as the Mad Slasher, and Russell Johnson, known as the Balcony Killer. Sixteen of the murders have remained unsolved, but a new book based on recovered police files offers a new theory on this bloody chapter in the town’s history, unmasking two alleged serial killers in the process.

Dennis Alsop, a detective sergeant with the Ontario provincial police, was based in the London area between 1950 and 1979. He kept all of his notes and research on the murders hidden until he died in 2012
."

Multiple killers operating within the same small geographical area, within the same time period.

"Over the past two decades, the citizens of Baton Rouge and its outskirts have been hunted by no less than five serial killers. Close to 70 men and women have been taken since around 1997, when authorities started noticing unusual patterns forming in their murder statistics. In fact at least five serial killers who have operated in the area independently of each other since 1995. The others include Sean Vincent Gillis, Jefferey Guillory and Ronald Dominique (who preyed exclusively in gay men). The fifth, named “Jennings killer” after the district (just south of Baton Rouge) his victims come from, has been linked to the murders of at least eight women and remains unidentified and at large."
And again.

"According to former chief of the FBI's Elite Serial Crime Unit, John Douglas, there are 25 to 50 active serial killers in the United States at any given moment. Today. Right now."

People seem to feel that Douglas offers insights into these Ripper cases, maybe they should know that the above are also his insights.

There are many cases of multiple serial killers that overlapped in both time frame and location.
1959 to 1984 - were they really simultaneous? And were they eviscerators? That is the point. I know there is a Southafrican town that has bred a fair few serialists over a short period of time - but we are looking for eviscerators here, Michael. Do you know if they were?
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  #1617  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:35 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
And were they eviscerators? That is the point.
The point is that there is evisceration for purely practical reasons (e.g. clearing stuff out of the way to facilitate chopping the body up; minimising the risk of stink if the body is to be stored before disposal; making a body lighter and easier to transport), there may even be incidental reasons (i.e. yer man chopped this body up and all this gunk spilled out), then there is evisceration as an end in itself (e.g. specifically to remove out and/or possess one or more internal organs).
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 11-02-2017 at 09:44 AM.
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  #1618  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:39 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
In this description of muscles of the abdominal wall as 'slips of flesh' we are told they come in various shapes and sizes
Thanks for that, Debs. Irritatingly, in the same book, the author refers several times to "slips of India rubber", when the context indicates clearly that he's talking about lengths/strips of rubber.
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  #1619  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:50 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
1959 to 1984 - were they really simultaneous?
The police thought that they had one serial "freeway killer" on their hands in California during the early 1970s, but it transpired there were three independent killers with a similar taste in young boys, and similar MOs.
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  #1620  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:01 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
The point is that there is evisceration for purely practical reasons (e.g. clearing stuff out of the way to facilitate chopping the body up; minimising the risk of stink if the body is to be stored before disposal; making a body lighter and easier to transport), there may even be incidental reasons (i.e. yer man chopped this body up and all this gunk spilled out), then there is evisceration as an end in itself (e.g. specifically to remove out and/or possess one or more internal organs).
actually that's not the point. this was the question:

Quote:
Question:

Has there ever been any example of a town or region where two eviscerating serial killers have worked simultaneously?

and since we don't really know the motivation or reason why the eviscerations took place, lets just stick to the evidence in any case if there were in fact eviscerations at all, shall we?
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but a dream within a dream?"

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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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