Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
General Suspect Discussion: Was Ernest Dowson Jack the Ripper? - by ChrisGeorge 41 minutes ago.
Shades of Whitechapel: Centenaries - whole and half - by Mayerling 4 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Was Ernest Dowson Jack the Ripper? - by Richard Patterson 4 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Was Ernest Dowson Jack the Ripper? - by Pcdunn 4 hours ago.
Shades of Whitechapel: Centenaries - whole and half - by GUT 4 hours ago.
Thompson, Francis: Francis Thompson. The Perfect Suspect. - by Abby Normal 4 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - (26 posts)
General Discussion: Collaboration on Mitre Square and GSG? - (11 posts)
Tumblety, Francis: Tumblety - Hermaphrodite. - (10 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Was Ernest Dowson Jack the Ripper? - (9 posts)
Witnesses: Why doubt a soldier murdered Tabram? - (7 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: A theory about some injuries! - (5 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1111  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:22 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
This is police thinking Trevor. If you can't prove it's a murder you stop and eat donuts.
LOL.now that's funny.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1112  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:28 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
The chemise found on her led them to believe to she was from a poorer class. Maybe she wasn't?
In all fairness she probably was.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1113  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:46 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 8,878
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
The logical answer to the initial question must be "because the killer wanted the victim to wear a chemise".
The logical answer to all this must be "women often wore chemises".

Why cook up more mysteries?
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1114  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:52 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 8,878
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
seems like the similarities just keep coming...

cut throats, chemises.. what next?
Skin! The torso victims and the Ripper victims all had skin!
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1115  
Old 10-24-2017, 11:55 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
The logical answer to all this must be "women often wore chemises".

Why cook up more mysteries?
It has been suggested that the Torso killer put the Whitehall torso in the building of New Scotland yard in order to taunt the police.

The suggestion is a perfectly logical one.

Is it also "cooking up more mysteries", Gareth?

Many serial killers have had hangups of different kinds. If I suggest that Ted Bundy had a thing for women who resembled the fiancée who dumped him - is that cooking up more mysteries? If I say that Charles Albroght had a thing for eyes, is that cooking up more mysteries?

And if I say that I have a very possible factual reason for how the torso man may have wanted his victims to be clad in chemises, a factual reason that has seemingly eluded you so far, I can tell you that it has nothing to do with cooking up more mysteries. It is instead a suggestion based on a number of facts that point in the direction I am speaking about.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1116  
Old 10-24-2017, 12:06 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Skin! The torso victims and the Ripper victims all had skin!
Not the 1873's Battersea victim, atleast not on her face
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1117  
Old 10-24-2017, 12:16 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 8,878
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
It has been suggested that the Torso killer put the Whitehall torso in the building of New Scotland yard in order to taunt the police.

The suggestion is a perfectly logical one.

Is it also "cooking up more mysteries", Gareth?
There's a world of difference between suggesting that a torso dumped on soon-to-be police premises might have been a taunt directed at the police, and suggesting that, because a torso was found wearing a chemise, her killer deliberately put it on her or made her wear it. The former suggestion may be logical, but the latter is little more than an exercise in wild, and lurid, speculation, especially when seen in the light of the fact that chemises were very common items of clothing at that time, and they weren't reserved for the boudoir.

What this boils down to, I suspect, is that you latched onto the word "chemise" believing that it was definitely an item of nightwear, which then led you to read some sort of kinky dimension into the murder, ultimately leading to the idea that the victim was forced to wear it by her killer for his own gratification.

NB: I'm really not having a dig at you, Fish, just trying to put myself into your mind and reverse-engineer your thought processes. I mean, if we can do that for Ripper or Torso suspects, why shouldn't we apply it to ourselves?
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

Last edited by Sam Flynn : 10-24-2017 at 12:23 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1118  
Old 10-24-2017, 12:16 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,646
Default

Quote:

Is it also "cooking up more mysteries", Gareth?
Yes perhaps
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1119  
Old 10-24-2017, 12:21 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 8,878
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
Not the 1873's Battersea victim, at least not on her face
I knew someone would say something like that
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1120  
Old 10-24-2017, 01:12 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,786
Default

Sam Flynn: There's a world of difference between suggesting that a torso dumped on soon-to-be police premises might have been a taunt directed at the police, and suggesting that, because a torso was found wearing a chemise, her killer deliberately put it on her or made her wear it.

No, Gareth. There IS a difference - there will always be when we compare phenomenons with any uilt-in differences at all - but it is certainly not a "world of difference".

The former suggestion may be logical, but the latter is little more than an exercise in wild, and lurid, speculation, especially when seen in the light of the fact that chemises were very common items of clothing at that time, and they weren't reserved for the boudoir.

That "wild and lurid" speculation only applies until you have all the cards on hand. Once you have, it changes into a very logical and viable suggestion. And THAT is a world of difference.

What this boils down to, I suspect, is that you latched onto the word "chemise" believing that it was definitely an item of nightwear, which then led you to read some sort of kinky dimension into the murder, ultimately leading to the idea that the victim was forced to wear it by her killer for his own gratification.

Nope. Sorry. Has nothing to do with that. And ironically, that turns your idea into wild and lurid speculation. Who would have thought it?

NB: I'm really not having a dig at you, Fish, just trying to put myself into your mind and reverse-engineer your thought processes. I mean, if we can do that for Ripper or Torso suspects, why shouldn't we apply it to ourselves?

You lost me there. I never use chemises.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.