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  #1  
Old 09-15-2008, 09:10 PM
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Chris Scott Chris Scott is offline
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Default Caroline Maxwell - where did she live?

In the reported inquest testimony of Kelly, Caroline Maxwell's address is given as follows:-
Caroline Maxewell, 14, Dorset-street
However, in the interview below, which I don't remember seeing before, Maxwell states that she and her husband lived at 26 Dorset Street, i.e. in the same building as Kelly.
I am not quite sure of the full meaning of her statement regarding Barnett:
"I didn't know then that she had separated from the man she had been living with, and I thought he had been 'paying' her."
Is this an acknowledgement that Maxwell knew she was an "unfortunate"? If so, what is she implying about Barnett's relationship with her?
Chris

Birmingham Daily Post
12 November 1888
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  #2  
Old 09-15-2008, 09:40 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Chris,

Dorset Street's properties were numbered consecutively along the south [Lodging House] side from west to east (1-20) and back along the north [Millers Court] side from east to west (21-39).

Maxwell said she lived "next door". Next door to what?

So I think it's poor punctuation, and the sentence should read—

Mrs Maxwell, the wife of the deputy of a lodging house in Dorset Street ("I assist my husband in his duties, but we live next door") situate just opposite the court where Mary Kelly lived at 26 Dorset Street, said to a Central News reporter . . . ."

Regards,

Simon
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:14 PM
Stephen Thomas Stephen Thomas is offline
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Yes Simon

I think Maxwell is saying that her husband worked as a deputy manager at Crossinghams across Dorset Street from the court and that she and he lived next door to Crossinghams.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:00 AM
sdreid sdreid is offline
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So what are "the horrors"? I always thought it was what we used to call the "Hiram Walker flu" around here. If that was the case though then why would someone advise one with that affliction to drink even more?
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:35 AM
anna anna is offline
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Hi Stan,
It's an old East End saying,that was still in use up to the 50's on a regular basis....it is referred to as "having surcumed to the horrors of drink"...having allowed the"demon" drink,to get you drunk.

My nan used to use it to my grandad,when he rolled in blind drunk,having somehow found his way back from the pub....and he used to try to sneak in,when my nan was in the kitchen and he knew she couldn't see him in the hall...or so he thought!!!!!!..she didn't have to see him,believe me...you could smell the staggering brewery from miles off. he was quite a character....she'd shout "Fred.....You got the horrors???"
(I used to laugh as a kid,as I'd already run out to the hall as he put his key in the lock....clumsily)....as he used to go without saying a word.

Best Regards,
ANNA.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:58 AM
claire claire is offline
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Yep, that's the one, anna! 'Succumbed to the horrors of drink'...that's priceless As for why someone would recommend a quick beer: it's the good old hair of the dog, Stan. In the absence of the McHangover Cure, getting a bit bladdered all over again is the best approach to a raging headache
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:09 PM
sdreid sdreid is offline
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Yes, that's what I thought it was, that is, the "Hiram Walker flu". I always thought "hair of the dog" was for the headache. It seems to me that drinking more would only make you sicker to your stomach if that was your problem. Whatever, I haven't ever tried it and don't plan to. The world has enough drunks already.
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:19 PM
The Good Michael The Good Michael is offline
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Stan

That hair of the dog thing seems to work for alcoholics, but not for anyone else. I had a boss once when I was young who would drink until he passed out, and then would take a drink when he woke up to feel better. One suspects it was about getting the alcohol level up again. He's one reason I don't drink much. We (my friends and I) would see him do this on occasion when we had all-night card games. He would just conk out.

Cheers,

Mike
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:30 AM
alex alex is offline
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Evening All

The following is the virtually verbatim report that appeared in the Daily Telegraph, 12th Nov.1888:

Mrs. Maxwell, who lives at 14, Dorset-street, but who assists her husband in the care of a common lodging house opposite Miller-court, says: “We stay up all night, and yesterday (Friday) as I was going home, carrying my lantern and other things with me, I saw the woman Kelly standing at the entrance of the court. It was then half-past eight, and as it was unusual for her to be seen about at that hour, I said to her, ‘Hallo! what are you doing up so early?’ She said, ‘Oh, I’m very bad this morning. I have had the horrors. I have been drinking so much lately.’ I said to her, ‘Why don’t you go and have half a pint of beer. It will put you right.’ She replied, ‘I’ve just had one, but I’m so bad I couldn’t keep it down.’ I didn’t know then that she had separated from the man she had been living with, and I thought he had been ‘paying’ her. I then went out in the direction of Bishopsgate to do some errands, and on my return I saw Kelly standing outside the public-house talking to a man. That was the last I saw of her.”

The almost identical wording in different newspapers on the same day seems to suggest that this report possibly originated from a news agency; although the differing description of Maxwell’s residence in the Birmingham Daily Post does seem a little disconcerting.

However, given the consistency of address, given as 14 Dorset St., in both her statement to police on 9th Nov. 1888 and at the inquest on 12th Nov. 1888, as well as in main newspaper reports, I feel 14 Dorset St. is probably a pretty safe bet as the actual residence of Caroline Maxwell

Best Wishes
alex chisholm
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:48 AM
Celesta Celesta is offline
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Part of the hangover experience for heavy drinkers is the withdrawal. The 'hair of the dog' is, as the Good Mike suggests, to get the alcohol-stream back up. To get a fix in other words.
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