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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #11  
Old 06-25-2017, 03:56 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardnunweek View Post
How long would the mutilations have taken?
About twenty minutes or so, not allowing for "breaks". Allowing for breaks, I'd say an hour, max.
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2017, 07:28 AM
MsWeatherwax MsWeatherwax is offline
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Originally Posted by GUT View Post
Not just Caroline Maxwell, Maurice Lewis claimed to have seen her that morning too, so are they both wrong???

Both mistaken

Both lying

Both just glory hunters

Both just idiots
Do you really find it hard to believe, GUT?

Anecdotal it might be, but I never fail to be surprised at how much people seem to want to attach themselves to tragedy.

From the recent past, The Moors Murders spring to mind - every year, someone else comes forward claiming to have 'almost' been kidnapped by Brady and Hindley. I doubt the financial rewards are spectacular (at least not in all cases), so there must be other motives even if they are unconscious. A lot of these accounts can be really easily disproved, but I have no doubt that the people concerned actually believe what they are saying.

I'm damned if I can find it, but I read a brilliant study once about the degree that people fill in missing details subconsciously because they're desperate to help the Police in these sort of cases -they don't intend to make things up to begin with, but the brain fills in the gaps in actual knowledge with what the individual witness feels should be there.

I'm actually OK with the time of death being out (it's hardly surprising that the science around this has moved on over the years), but I really struggle with the idea that she was killed in daylight hours.

Regardless of whether she was murdered by JtR or someone else, it would be a hell of a risk to take when the sun was up. How would he have escaped without being noticed? He must have had quite a bit of blood on him, surely?
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  #13  
Old 06-27-2017, 12:20 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Originally Posted by MsWeatherwax View Post
I'm actually OK with the time of death being out (it's hardly surprising that the science around this has moved on over the years), but I really struggle with the idea that she was killed in daylight hours.

Regardless of whether she was murdered by JtR or someone else, it would be a hell of a risk to take when the sun was up. How would he have escaped without being noticed? He must have had quite a bit of blood on him, surely?
Hmm... Well, maybe that's what the fire was for. He burnt his own clothing, and escaped wearing some of laundry which was in the room. Some have suggested he might even have worn Mary's clothing, which may put a new spin on the Maxwell encounter (if we suppose she met the killer, not MJK.)

Then again, if he was a bed-partner, perhaps he killed while naked, saving his clothes from being bloodied in the first place, so he could walk abroad without traces of his crime on his person.
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  #14  
Old 06-27-2017, 01:00 PM
Damaso Marte Damaso Marte is offline
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Originally Posted by MsWeatherwax View Post
Regardless of whether she was murdered by JtR or someone else, it would be a hell of a risk to take when the sun was up. How would he have escaped without being noticed? He must have had quite a bit of blood on him, surely?
I always marvel at people who consider the MJK murder "risky" in comparison to any of the other Whitechapel killings. In my mind it's the least risky murder in the entire series, no matter what time the light was on.
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2017, 01:21 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Tend to agree with GUT.

Reckon the yells of "murder" close to 4am indicates Mary Kelly ate her fish and potatoes around 1am,then slept.

Surmise Jack might have been in the room for a bit over an hour before murdering her.

Coal is the likely fuel for the fire.
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  #16  
Old 06-27-2017, 02:28 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Tend to agree with GUT.

Reckon the yells of "murder" close to 4am indicates Mary Kelly ate her fish and potatoes around 1am,then slept.

Surmise Jack might have been in the room for a bit over an hour before murdering her.

Coal is the likely fuel for the fire.
Who could afford coal?
Dried horse dung from the street was often used for fires by the poor.

Though I'm not so sure if it was the first choice by prostitutes, the subsequent aroma might be a bit of a passion killer
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  #17  
Old 06-27-2017, 03:33 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Damaso Marte View Post
I always marvel at people who consider the MJK murder "risky" in comparison to any of the other Whitechapel killings. In my mind it's the least risky murder in the entire series.
Totally agree.
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  #18  
Old 06-27-2017, 03:47 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Assuming for the sake of argument that Mrs. Maxwell is correct in her time does this tell us anything that we didn't know already?

c.d.
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  #19  
Old 06-27-2017, 04:23 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Who could afford coal?
Dried horse dung from the street was often used for fires by the poor.

Though I'm not so sure if it was the first choice by prostitutes, the subsequent aroma might be a bit of a passion killer
Coal would melt the kettle spout off.
Source of funding is the point.

Dried horse dung would have been difficult to obtain,given the weather.
Crikey,even in Melbourne during the 1950s nobody would think of drying and burning the stuff.
Mum used to put it on the garden.
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  #20  
Old 06-27-2017, 05:46 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJA View Post
Coal would melt the kettle spout off.
Source of funding is the point.

Dried horse dung would have been difficult to obtain,given the weather.
Crikey,even in Melbourne during the 1950s nobody would think of drying and burning the stuff.
Mum used to put it on the garden.
Cow dung and buffalo (bison) "chips" were much easier to dry in arid Western climates, and were often used by settlers and Natives for their fires.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_animal_dung_fuel

I think horse dung is more moist, and better fertilizer for your Mum's garden, as you said. (Though, as someone with experience at raking the stuff out of the corral and stall, I can attest that equine dung will dry, but crumbles apart more easily.)
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