Chalk users

[Adam Went]

Hey all,

Dr. Strange:

Agree with you, it's perfectly reasonable to expect slight differences in opinions, but there is a vast difference between "good schoolboy hand" and a bunch of violent scribble.

I actually think that the neatness and cursive style of the writing might account for the discrepancies between Juwes and Jewes, just a mistake in the reading of the cursive writing, as opposed to if it had been written in block print, for instance.

Steven:

Must be an Australianism. In fact, Wikipedia says:

In Australia, the term "marker" usually refers only to large-tip markers, and the terms "felt-tip" and "felt pen" usually refers only to fine-tip markers. Markers in Australia are sometimes called "texta". "Texta" is a brand name of a type of permanent marker, which is sometimes used generically. They are also known as Sharpies and Thick Black Texta.

Basically it's just the ink version of colouring pencils....

Cheers,
Adam.

[Barnaby]

Big assumption: If we assume the the graffito was written by JTR in (by all accounts) relatively good penmanship, which if any of the current suspects would this exonerate?

[Steven Russell]

Cheers, Adam.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Adam Went]

Barnaby:

Difficult to say because we don't have samples of handwriting from the majority of suspects, at least not anything which you could compare it to. It's a similar argument to one that's been had before, about whether the GSG could be matched to the handwriting in any of the supposed Ripper letters.....two very different sets of circumstances and very difficult to match up in any case of course, chalk writing on a wall and ink writing on paper, but it's a moot point because the GSG was never photographed.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Steven Russell]

Adam:
I think Barnaby is thinking about the standard of literacy of the various suspects rather than their handwriting style. In other words, who among them was too illiterate to have left the message. That right, Barnaby?

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Adam Went]

Steven:

Yes, you're probably right there. But then just because we don't have handwriting samples from some suspects doesn't mean that they were illiterate either...

My point simply is that using methods like that could only extend to a certain percentage of the field of suspects, not the entirety of them.

Cheers,
Adam.

[drstrange169]

...the cursive style of the writing might account for the discrepancies between Juwes and Jewes ...

Excellent point!

[Steven Russell]

. But then just because we don't have handwriting samples from some suspects doesn't mean that they were illiterate either...
Adam.

Quite so. I did not say any of them were.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Phil H]

It seems likely that Kosminski might not have been practised at using English.

On a scale, Druitt, Tumblety or Cutbush (i.e. a middle class killer) would be more likely than Kosminski, or an immigrant, to write a neat cursive hand, IMHO.

None of them did though. The graffito has nothing to do with "Jack".

Phil

[Errata]

I'm thinking about it, and I have nothing to back this up, but don't people generally write more neatly on a vertical surface than a horizontal one? I'm just thinking about all the teachers I had who were perfectly legible on a blackboard and had chicken scratch on my returned papers.

[Hunter]

Good point, Errata.

When writing on a chalkboard, you use your whole arm. When writing on a desktop, most people write with their wrist.

If the killer did write the graffito, handwriting analysis wouldn't have been much help.

[Adam Went]

Dr:

Thanks. The question just remains now as to which is the correct one...

It's all just blind guesswork but to me the GSG sounds as if it was written by a home grown Englishman. Say it out loud to yourself: "The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for nothing" - it sounds like a bit of semi-educated slang from a fisherman you'd see at the local pub on a Saturday night. Not a foreign immigrant with a limited understanding of English.

Cheers,
Adam.

[ChrisGeorge]

Dr:

Thanks. The question just remains now as to which is the correct one...

It's all just blind guesswork but to me the GSG sounds as if it was written by a home grown Englishman. Say it out loud to yourself: "The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for nothing" - it sounds like a bit of semi-educated slang from a fisherman you'd see at the local pub on a Saturday night. Not a foreign immigrant with a limited understanding of English.

Cheers,
Adam.

Hi Adam

Yes it's the Cockney double negative -- a manner of speaking that you wouldn't expect from a foreigner, and particularly a recent immigrant with a poor grasp of English.

All the best

Chris

[Steven Russell]

Not sure I agree with you there, Chris. Immigrants would pick up much of their English from the locals innit.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Lechmere]

The immigrant community was not well integrated in 1888 and it is unlikely that many of them would have picked up on local dialectical usages.
...and I don’t think there were many fishermen in the area at the time either.