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Written in an imitative Irish/"foreign" patois?

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  • Written in an imitative Irish/"foreign" patois?

    This is an idea I've seen bandied about by a variety of authors who approach the thing from different angles, but never seem to have connected it one to the other: that the "From Hell" letter is written with the intent to be read aloud with a distinctly 'non-English' accent.

    Probably the most compelling evidence towards this end is the spelling of "preserved" as 'prasarved', which, when spoken out loud, sounds almost exactly the stereotype of the Irish brogue.

    If this is the case, then I feel it's safe to say that the author, whatever his (or her) relation to the crimes, was not Irish or "foreign", for the simple fact that non-Englishmen who are capable of writing English write it just the same as the British do. If this was a deliberate effort to cast aspersions on an accented foreign underclass, then it almost inevitably follows that the author was not a member of it.

    How do you feel on the subject?

  • #2
    Hello, DD.
    I don't agree that the letter is meant to sound Irish. To me, "presairved" would be closer to a southern Irish pronunciation while a northern Irish version would look the same as the correct spelling. Unless the author was a pirate, the only thing we can glean from "prasarved" is that either he could not spell "preserved" or wanted us to think so.

    Nor am I convinced that the salutation reads as "Sor". It could easily be "Sir" with the dot missed off the "i" - although a point against this is that all other dots seem to be present and correct.

    And who, apart from Sean Connery, says "mishter"? Again, not particularly Irish to my mind.

    But of course we will never know and you may be right. This has been discussed here before and as I recall, few people - if any - could be persuaded to change their opinion either way. It is probably a good example of confirmation bias: we all tend to embrace "evidence" and argument which supports our theory while dismissing anything which does not.

    A poll might be interesting though. Along the lines of:
    was the author
    a) Irish,
    b) pretending to be Irish,
    c) neither.

    Should we set one up?

    Best wishes,
    Steve.
    Last edited by Steven Russell; 11-11-2010, 07:49 PM. Reason: Spelling!

    Comment


    • #3
      A poll might be interesting though. Along the lines of:
      was the author
      a) Irish,
      b) pretending to be Irish,
      c) neither.

      Should we set one up?

      Best wishes,
      Steve.
      [/QUOTE]

      Good idea -I'd vote 'b'
      http://youtu.be/GcBr3rosvNQ

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Steven Russell View Post
        A poll might be interesting though. Along the lines of:
        was the author
        a) Irish,
        b) pretending to be Irish,
        c) neither.

        Should we set one up?
        Yeah, that sounds great. I leave it to you to do. I'd recommend including one other option, which is 'pretending to be a non-Irish foreigner', as that's always a possibility.

        Comment


        • #5
          Nor am I convinced that the salutation reads as "Sor". It could easily be "Sir" with the dot missed off the "i"


          Am I right in remembering that about 25 years ago(ish) everybody did read it as "Sir" and it is only at some point in the years afterwards that people began to see it as "Sor"?

          It may be just the order in which I read the various books, but I'm sure that it always used to be "Sir"?

          Regards,
          Last edited by Tecs; 11-12-2010, 12:53 AM.
          If I have seen further it is because I am standing on the shoulders of giants.

          Comment


          • #6
            And who, apart from Sean Connery, says "mishter"? Again, not particularly Irish to my mind.

            Couldn't agree more, I've never understood why "mishter" is supposed to be Irish? None of my Irish friends say it like that?

            Regards,
            If I have seen further it is because I am standing on the shoulders of giants.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tecs View Post
              Am I right in remembering that about 25 years ago(ish) everybody did read it as "Sir" and it is only at some point in the years afterwards that people began to see it as "Sor"?

              It may be just the order in which I read the various books, but I'm sure that it always used to be "Sir"?
              Quite right. Everyone read it as "Sir" for about the first hundred years after the murders. "Sor" is a relatively recent innovation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chris View Post
                Quite right. Everyone read it as "Sir" for about the first hundred years after the murders. "Sor" is a relatively recent innovation.
                Thanks Chris, it's great to know that my memory still works occasionally!

                Regards,
                If I have seen further it is because I am standing on the shoulders of giants.

                Comment


                • #9
                  He's Scottish

                  Originally posted by Steven Russell View Post

                  And who, apart from Sean Connery, says "mishter"? Again, not particularly Irish to my mind.
                  Sean Connery was born in Scotland.

                  Edward

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                  • #10
                    It seems that today's Ripper experts are divided as to the salutation. While the new A-Z transcribes it as Sor, Letters From Hell has it as Sir. I wonder what Keith Skinner thinks since he is co-author of both. Anyway, I'll set up the poll as discussed.

                    Best wishes,
                    Steve.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Writing was taught very differently in the Victorian era which makes it harder for us to understand and be able to transcribe accurately, but I think the simple question is this, whether or not Jack wrote the letter (and I personally believe he did):

                      Is it more likely that the killer was clever enough to deliberately lead the police off in a false direction by trying to imitate an accent in his writing; or more likely that the writer was a semi-educated individual who was writing as best he knew how?

                      My money is on the latter.

                      Cheers,
                      Adam.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The man seen by Emily Marsh?

                        A searchable online edition of the Proceedings of the Old Bailey, 1674-1913.

                        An interesting case from the Old Bailey 1882. Scroll down to the evidence of WM Walter Morton who mentions, " a tall dark man who appeared like a clergyman". Further down, the evidence of Garratt Redman mentions a Rev Dr Flanaghan, Rector of Kilvenny, who apparently never existed.

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