Who was the best witness to have seen Jack the Ripper?

[Damaso Marte]

Considering the estimated age, the style of dress, and the location of Smith's sighting, I think it likely he saw a member of the club handing out free promo copies of the club's paper, Der Arbeter Fraint. This is one of the ways they drew in newcomers on the weekend. And the dimensions of the paper are spot on to what Smith estimated was the parcel. A stack of unfolded papers wrapped with string would indeed look like a package to the passerby. If I'm correct I have an idea of who the man was, because there was one of the paper's staff working with Krantz in the backyard offices of the time who may have been kept from the police and did not appear at the inquest, but his name escapes me at the moment.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Yup. I've seen either you or Lynn Cates post this theory before, and I found it convincing.

Is this the first instance of the "killer was carrying a parcel" meme that shows up, e.g., in Hutchinson's supposed sighting?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Damaso, my theories are often repeated, but never equaled. It might seem convincing, but I'm not convinced. It's just something that occurred to me years ago in the course of research and seems plausible. I believe it is the first 'parcel' sighting, but it must be said that Smith's newspaper parcel and Hutch's American cloth bag are nothing like the same thing. I believe what Smith took the parcel to be was a box wrapped in newspaper. That's why I suggest a stack of newspapers wrapped in string and held under the arm at that time of night would appear more like a parcel. After all, the Der Arbeter Fraint would not have appeared like a standard newspaper hawked around the streets by newsboys and immediately identifiable. They would have been hot off the press and unfolded.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Is it not a coincidence that the man Maxwell saw talking to Kelly, took place outside the Britannia just a few hours later.?
Was this the same guy?
If so he was certainly Jack the Ripper.
Had she arranged to meet him in the morning, was the no hurry approach by the killer, a ploy to gain the confidence of his victim?
Regards Richard.

[Damaso Marte]

The possibility of the killer spending lots of time, perhaps even hours, with the victims before actually killing them cannot be ruled out, except perhaps for Eddowes.

[Scott Nelson]

How about the untraced Benjamin Amos Solomon?

[Ben]

Hi Haskins,

I never thought I'd say this on a witness-related thread, but it's Fisherman's post that most closely mirrors my own thoughts on the issue. Lawende is perhaps the best of the bunch (and it appears, from various sources, that the police may have agreed), but if it wasn't for doubts as to Stride's inclusion in the ripper's tally, Schwartz would be an obvious candidate for one of the most likely ripper-spotters (I completely discount the argument that the broad-shouldered attacker was not Stride's killer).

Sarah Lewis's description of the loiterer with the wideawake hat is also a viable candidate for the ripper, in my view. His loitering behaviour is consistent with that of known serial killers who discreetly monitor their intended victims' homes before entering them. It could also be observed that her description, while vague, corresponds in an admittedly broad sense to other eyewitness descriptions of the supposed killer.

It has been pointed out, correctly, that Lewis saw three men, and they were as follows:

1) The aforementioned man with the wideawake, hanging around as though watching and waiting for someone to emerge from Miller's Court.

2) A man talking with a woman outside Ringers' pub on Commercial Street, near Spitalfields market, and who may or may not have been the same person who accosted her and a friend the previous Wednesday.

3) A young man, definitely not Astrakhan, who walked down Dorset Street with a drunk woman, definitely not Kelly, and who certainly didn't walk down Miller's Court passage.

Of these three, 1) is obviously the most suspicious on account of his apparent interest in the court.

[pinkmoon]

I think the best witness will have to be the person or persons who never came forward to the police.Someone must have seen something but as they were probley up to no good themselves they never came forward.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Ben, I haven't seen you in forever.

If we were to fairly evaluate the witnesses based on contemporary evidence, Lawende would fall towards the bottom of the list. But since people vote based on the books they read, and the books they read are largely Anderson-biased and say Lawende was a great witness (even though he could identify neither man nor woman), they vote that-a-way. But I still don't think Schwartz - misinformed opinions aside-would top the list by virtue of the fact that what he saw may have occurred a full quarter hour prior to her murder. That's a rather long time. I haven't voted on this poll because I don't have an opinion on the matter as of yet, but none of the witnesses listed are good witnesses as far as having seen the potential killer. The ones who are most likely to have seen him didn't get a good look.

I have to say I agree with Pink that the best witnesses are ones we don't know about.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[harry]

Seeing is believing

I am of the opinion that Brown saw Stride with her killer.

[pinkmoon]

Hi Ben, I haven't seen you in forever.

If we were to fairly evaluate the witnesses based on contemporary evidence, Lawende would fall towards the bottom of the list. But since people vote based on the books they read, and the books they read are largely Anderson-biased and say Lawende was a great witness (even though he could identify neither man nor woman), they vote that-a-way. But I still don't think Schwartz - misinformed opinions aside-would top the list by virtue of the fact that what he saw may have occurred a full quarter hour prior to her murder. That's a rather long time. I haven't voted on this poll because I don't have an opinion on the matter as of yet, but none of the witnesses listed are good witnesses as far as having seen the potential killer. The ones who are most likely to have seen him didn't get a good look.

I have to say I agree with Pink that the best witnesses are ones we don't know about.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,thanks for agreeing with me I have been saying this for years and people have rubbished me about it.It is quite possible that our killer was seen or even possible disturbed by some one who didn't come forward.I might stick my neck out a bit more could the "private information " have come from somebody who saw druitt in the east end and obviously could not come forward in a conventional way.I'm not saying that they saw druitt attacking anyone but maybe they could have sited him in the east end in an unsavoury area or venue

[Wickerman]

... I believe what Smith took the parcel to be was a box wrapped in newspaper. That's why I suggest a stack of newspapers wrapped in string and held under the arm at that time of night would appear more like a parcel. After all, the Der Arbeter Fraint would not have appeared like a standard newspaper hawked around the streets by newsboys and immediately identifiable. They would have been hot off the press and unfolded.

I recall you mentioning this before, did you ever obtain a copy of this paper, Der Arbeter Fraint?, I thought someone had.
I wondered what its dimensions actually were.

[Scorpio]

How do you define ' Best ' Wickerman?.
Is it a question of reliability ?.
How many witnesses had their statements verified by another?.
How much time elapsed between sighting and their statement being given?.
Is it a question of validity?.
Are they certain it was the victim?.
How much time elapsed between the sighting and time of death?.
If i was Detective assigned to one of the killing's, i would ask myself these questions and more.
Answer: I would be wary of staking my case on any of them.

[jason_c]

Lawende or Long. Both sightings are relatively sparse in their descriptions. This adds to their veracity in my opinion.

[Ben]

How do you define ' Best ' Wickerman?.

The Bricklayers Arms witness who wasn't Gardner.

Hi Tom,

Yes, long time no see. I'd heard some bad news that you weren't well, but I trust that's all behind you now.

Lawende represents the best of the bunch on two levels; the first being the high esteem in which his evidence was apparently regarded by the police. Quite aside from any Andersonian allegiances (which I personally don't have), there is strong evidence that he was the only witness used in identity attempts with post-1888 suspects, such as Kosminski and Grainger. The other reason being the timing and location of the sighting in relation to the discovery of Eddowes's body. Whilst it may be possible that the couple were not Eddowes and her killer, it certainly isn't probable. Lawende's words are often misinterpreted, but he believed the clothing worn by the woman was the same as the items he was shown at the morgue, i.e. not just similar, as often stated.

As for Schwartz, it can be fairly safely concluded, in my opinion, that if Schwartz gave a truthful account, and if Stride was a ripper victim, the broad-shouldered man was Jack the Ripper. 15 minutes isn't very long at all, although I don't believe as much time as that elapsed between the assault (or physical manhandling, at the very least) and the likely time of death. I'm very much on the fence when it comes to most Stride-related issue, with the exception of this one. When people argue that there must have been another attacker who came long after the first one, I'm always astounded by what I consider an odd resistance to the most obvious and probable explanation, which is that the person seen attacking her at around the time she died was also her killer.

All the best,
Ben

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Wick. I've had copies for many years. But it was Lynn Cates who spent the time and money to have them translated from Yiddish into English, the results of which he published in Ripperologist magazine.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott