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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Klosowski, Severin (George Chapman)

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  #11  
Old 09-19-2011, 10:40 PM
HelenaWojtczak HelenaWojtczak is offline
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Originally Posted by The Good Michael View Post
Wow you are an arrogant piece of work. My sources are intelligence and the fact that we went over this stuff years ago when you were out writing whatever little pamphletsl you were writing. Feldshers were often the only medical people available in villages in Russia and Poland (which was part of Russia) and were not just nurses. In the 50s and 60s they were assistants and nurses. In the 19th century they did all kinds of things. Your sources are outdated or you didn't read them. Do some homework and get back to me.

Mike
You can abuse and insult me as much as you like, it won't make you right.

A felczer is NOT a surgeon. Rapoport was not a "senior surgeon". Klosowski was not apprenticed to a surgeon. This is all relevant because this nonsense is repeatedly cited to prove he was Jack the Ripper because he was a surgeon i.e. someone who cuts open people's bodies, cuts out organs etc.

I did not say they were "just" nurses. I told the truth, they were nurse-practitioners. They ran their own polyclinics, under the supervision of a qualified physician who visited now and again.

You said a felczer was a barber surgeon earlier on.

Lastly, I don't write pamphlets, I write award-winning books of factual history. What do you write?

Carry on with the abuse, it's water off a duck's back to me!

Helena
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Helena Wojtczak BSc (Hons) FRHistS.

Author of 'Jack the Ripper at Last? George Chapman, the Southwark Poisoner'. Click this link : - http://www.hastingspress.co.uk/chapman.html
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  #12  
Old 09-19-2011, 10:49 PM
Magpie Magpie is offline
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"I did not say they were "just" nurses. I told the truth, they were nurse-practitioners. They ran their own polyclinics, under the supervision of a qualified physician who visited now and again."

Which in Victorian England would have been the equivalent of a "physician and surgeon". In Victorian times, a "surgeon" was not necessarily someone who was qualified to perform surgery--there was no term for what today we would call a general practioner (or indeed a nurse practioner).

It's not enough for a translator to literally translate word "A" in one language into work "A" in another language--they also have to convey a sense of equivalency between the two phrases.
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2011, 10:56 PM
HelenaWojtczak HelenaWojtczak is offline
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Magpie

Which in Victorian England would have been the equivalent of a "physician and surgeon".

Absolutely NOT. You are belittling them by suggesting it. I have studied in depth the struggle women had to become doctors, and I wrote a biography of one of them, and that gave me an insight into exactly the qualifications needed for anyone (m/f) to become a physician and surgeon.


In Victorian times, a "surgeon" was not necessarily someone who was qualified to perform surgery--there was no term for what today we would call a general practioner (or indeed a nurse practioner).

You are correct here. They just used to call people "doctors" back then, not GPs. And we did not have such a thing as a nurse-practitioner, which is why Pietrykowski floundered when he had to translate the word "felczer". He had a wild stab in the dark (no pun intended) and went for "surgeon".

Little did he know what a can of worms he was opening!

Helena
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Helena Wojtczak BSc (Hons) FRHistS.

Author of 'Jack the Ripper at Last? George Chapman, the Southwark Poisoner'. Click this link : - http://www.hastingspress.co.uk/chapman.html
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  #14  
Old 09-19-2011, 11:16 PM
Magpie Magpie is offline
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Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
Magpie

Which in Victorian England would have been the equivalent of a "physician and surgeon".

Absolutely NOT. You are belittling them by suggesting it. I have studied in depth the struggle women had to become doctors, and I wrote a biography of one of them, and that gave me an insight into exactly the qualifications needed for anyone (m/f) to become a physician and surgeon.

A "physician and surgeon" was the lowest rung on the medical ladder, requiring only a LRCS and a LRCP (which could be obtained through apprenticeship).


Quote:
And we did not have such a thing as a nurse-practitioner, which is why Pietrykowski floundered when he had to translate the word "felczer". He had a wild stab in the dark (no pun intended) and went for "surgeon".
Giving the context at the time, it was a pretty good stab, as it happens, for reasons I've just explained. Absent the concept of "nurse-practioner", "field surgeon" is a pretty apt description.
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Last edited by Magpie : 09-19-2011 at 11:34 PM.
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  #15  
Old 09-20-2011, 01:58 AM
Magpie Magpie is offline
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Intertran translates "felczer" as "surgeon's mate"

Poltran translates it as "hospital attendent, surgeon"

Google Translate translates it to "surgeon"

Systranet translates it as "hospital attendent"

Bab.la translates it as "military surgeon"

So it appears that Pietrykowski was not that far off the mark after all.
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  #16  
Old 09-20-2011, 02:49 PM
The Good Michael The Good Michael is offline
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Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
You can abuse and insult me as much as you like, it won't make you right.


Lastly, I don't write pamphlets, I write award-winning books of factual history. What do you write?

Carry on with the abuse, it's water off a duck's back to me!
Abuse you? You come here to this site begging people to help you and I try and give you information, yet you tell me to do my homework. Who is abusing whom? Some of you people sit on your high horses having won Good Housekeeping awards for your placemat books and think you own the world. Sorry lady, but you are sitting on the back of a Shetland pony at best, and it needs to go back down into the mines.

Mike
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  #17  
Old 09-21-2011, 05:36 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Hi Helena,

If you wouldn't mind, would you please stop creating so many disparate threads to discuss the same subject (George Chapman), and maybe try to cause less acrimony amongst the other posters while you're at it? You're clearly enthusiastic about your reseacher, and it will quite possibly result in the best suspect book on Chapman to come out, but you'll catch more bees with honey, and there's bandwidth issues to consider.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #18  
Old 09-21-2011, 03:17 PM
The Good Michael The Good Michael is offline
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Thanks Tom.


Mike
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  #19  
Old 09-21-2011, 04:31 PM
HelenaWojtczak HelenaWojtczak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Good Michael View Post
Some of you people sit on your high horses having won Good Housekeeping awards for your placemat books and think you own the world. Sorry lady, but you are sitting on the back of a Shetland pony at best, and it needs to go back down into the mines.
Mike
Your cheap potshots reveal merely your envy.

I have reported your continued trolling abuse to admin.
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Helena Wojtczak BSc (Hons) FRHistS.

Author of 'Jack the Ripper at Last? George Chapman, the Southwark Poisoner'. Click this link : - http://www.hastingspress.co.uk/chapman.html
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  #20  
Old 09-21-2011, 04:36 PM
curious curious is offline
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Hi Helena,

If you wouldn't mind, would you please . . . maybe try to cause less acrimony amongst the other posters . . . you'll catch more bees with honey,

Tom Wescott
exactly. Having caught of couple of your threads, Helena, I believe I would rather skip the book than add any funds to your coffers . . .

just saying.

curious
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