JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

[louisa]

good points louisa
but if it was an intruder, (and no, an intruder cant be ruled out at this point, in my opinion,) his original intention was to abduct her and sexually abuse her at his bolt hole. he only got the idea to ransome the ramseys while he was in the house while they were out, only to have difficulty removing her so he sexually assaulted and strangled her there. which while this scenario addresses many of your points, also kind of shows the improbability of it all happening that way! but not impossible in my opinion.

He would have had no difficulty in removing her. He could have simply taken her out of the pantry door.

Remember - this bogus person had to have been within the house for at least two hours. Totally comfortable in his surroundings. The ransom note would have taken 21 minutes to actually write - and that doesn't include 'thinking' time.

And what a coincidence that his handwriting matched Patsy's! The police took literally hundreds of handwriting samples from people but only five were not ruled out - Patsy was one of them (another coincidence?)

If you can picture this stranger - mastermind crook that he must have been - sitting down in the kitchen, sucking his pen and wondering what to write, while the family slept upstairs? He probably would have been in darkness except for a flashlight.

He managed to abduct JBR from her bed without her making a sound - that in itself is pretty good going......then carry out all those things he did to her - totally comfortable in the knowledge nobody is going to come downstairs and catch him. What a guy!

Remember the head trauma came first then the strangulation - 90 minutes in between. Then the 'staging' (why wuld an intruder need to stage a crime scene?) where tape was put over JBR's mouth.

Then he went back upstairs and took a blanket from the dryer, went back down to the basement and carefully wrapped the body (like a papoose) and hid her in a tiny room at the back.

Then he went back up and left the ransom note on the stairs for Patsy to find. That's a lot of travelling between floors for somebody who has just murdered a child.

Then of course he exited the house and managed to leave NOT A TRACE of himself behind. Wow!

When Patsy came downstairs she incidentally, didn't pick up the note but stepped over it (almost impossible according to the FBI).

You and I would have picked up the note straight away to see what it said. Patsy stated the stairs and hallway were dimly lit.

Then of course you know the rest - the lawyering up - the odd behaviour. The way the Ramseys lied to everyone and contaminated the crime scene in every possible way.

From a personal viewpoint I would have insisted the cops dust EVERY surface of the house, but the Ramseys weren't bothered. Not about that, and not about the kidnappers 10am deadline.

They just wanted to get out of there ASAP before the police started asking awkward questions.

An innocent couple would wish to stay around in Boulder for as long as possible in order to help with enquiries, not get out to another state that very afternoon, which is what they intended to do.


Oh and another thing - JBR was probably NOT sexually molested. It has never been proven. Blood from her private parts had been wiped and smeared on her where somebody tried to roughly clean her up. It has been said that fibres found there were from John's dress shirt (the one he had been wearing to the party that evening)
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[Pcdunn]

Hello, Tom Tom, welcome to the thread. I live in the Denver Metro area, in a city about halfway between Boulder and Denver. I did not follow the case very closely over the years, but I did see the first press conference with the Ramseys, and indeed, most of the news reports that constantly populated our local news broadcasts.
I've also seen the drama based on "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" and the recent TV movie which seemed to use much information from Steve Thomas and the Whites.

I found your mention of a hardware store receipt interesting, but don't recall much about it. Could you please tell us your source for it, and the items listed on it?

I would recommend looking at the archives of the DENVER POST and the Boulder DAILY CAMERA for articles, also an alterative paper called WESTWORD. The grand jury, by the way, was not given all evidence in the case before coming to their decision regarding the Ramseys.

[louisa]

Hi Pat,

The police found a receipt in the Ramsey residence from a hardware store called McGuckins. The receipt was not itemized but certain amounts on the bill matched items used in the murder, i.e. duct tape.

The security tapes at McGuckin's had been taped over by the time the police got to them.

The DA would not sign a warrant to get the Ramsey credit card records and the Ramseys declined to turn them over voluntarily.

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[Pcdunn]

Thanks for the information on the hardware store, Louisa. I'm not familiar with it, but apparently it's a local independent store in Boulder, not part of a chain.

https://www.mcguckin.com/the-mcguckin-story/

This says it got its start in the 1950s. Today it seems to have expanded from "hardware" to "everything".

[louisa]

Thanks for the information on the hardware store, Louisa. I'm not familiar with it, but apparently it's a local independent store in Boulder, not part of a chain.

https://www.mcguckin.com/the-mcguckin-story/

This says it got its start in the 1950s. Today it seems to have expanded from "hardware" to "everything".

I love those old fashioned stores. When I was in America I spent a lot of time mooching around places like that.

I loved almost everything about my visit to the US (we went to the west coast) Especially the food!

That photo of the store - that view of the mountains - spectacular. You're lucky to live in such a beautiful part of the world.

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[louisa]

I should have put this link on my post to TomTom.

It's another excellent website but you need to be a member to post on it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/53f0cc/the_case_of_jonbenet_ramsey_discussion_thread/

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[TomTomKent]

Oh I did have something else about this on my ipod. Turns out it was one of Martin's Unsolved Mysteries on one of Mr Fido's Murder After Midnight collections.

That, by the way, is worth looking up on iTunes. It does not go into anywhere near as much detail as the discussions in this thread, but is a succinct half hour summary of the case.

Like the Whitechapel murders, or the Kennedy assassination, there is very much a feeling having read one or two books of "Ooh, I know what is going on here..." Only then to find there is so much more that books don't cover or blur, in their attempt to sell their conclusion.

[louisa]

Interesting observations regarding the 'Ransom Note'.................

http://www.corpus-delicti.com/ressler_jbr.html

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[Abby Normal]

not sure if anyone saw this recent article on the DNA:

http://nypost.com/2016/10/28/new-dna-twist-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder/

what id like to know is that is any of the DNA found on her able to be matched to anyone in the future?

[louisa]

not sure if anyone saw this recent article on the DNA:

http://nypost.com/2016/10/28/new-dna-twist-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder/

what id like to know is that is any of the DNA found on her able to be matched to anyone in the future?

Hi Abby!

Thanks for the link but what the paper is saying is old news now. Mary Lacy's decision to exonerate the Ramseys has been discussed many times on Websleuths (you should become a member, Abby)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?23-JonBenet-Ramsey

Mary Lacy stated that she would NEVER accept that parents could ever be involved in the murder of their daughter. It was her guideline. She accepted erroneous DNA as FACT and did not hear all the evidence.

She wrote a revolting sucking-up letter of apology to the Ramseys, which even her colleagues felt was wrong.

So it is universally accepted now that the Ramseys should NOT have been cleared on the evidence Mary Lacy based her exoneration on.

As to whether the DNA found on JBR ever be found to match somebody in the future? There were fibres found in her pants that came from her father's shirt cuffs (he was wearing a black dress shirt that night).

Fibres from Patsy's red and black jacket were found adhered to the piece of duct tape on JBR's mouth. Very telling evidence imo.

The other DNA is accountable for. If you were to buy a pack of underwear from any retailer and sent it for DNA testing it would show DNA from the people in the factories that handled it. That's what the rest of the DNA on JBR was.

However, you and I both know that there will ALWAYS be conspiracy theories and headlines proclaiming "Killer of JBR has at last been found" - and it will turn out to be another false claim. I think the National Enquirer (over the last 20 years) has had around 20 front pages with those kind of headlines!

The hard facts are that there was no intruder. The Ramseys had to make one up in order to save themselves, their son and their millionaire lifestyle.

They blamed everyone they knew - and some they didn't know.

They even tried to pin it on Santa Claus!

Our only hope - as I see it - is if Fleet White spills the beans on what he knows - but that's not going to happen; he just wants a quiet life now and probably never wants to hear the word 'Ramsey' ever again.

And who can blame him?
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[louisa]

JOHN FEELS RESPONSIBLE

JBRs father says he holds himself responsible for his daughter's death, telling Dr. Phil (via E! Online) that he thinks his daughter was murdered to punish him. "I sadly, and regretfully believe that, yes," John said.

Now my question is this: What kind of person would think that God would murder a child simply as a punishment for his own sins? (whatever they may be, and we'll probably never know).

This shows John was an egomaniac - the centre of his own universe. Nobody else mattered. Everything bad was done to punish HIM!

This, remember, was a man supposedly pious and religious, presumably believing God was merciful yet can think this same God was so into revenge and punishment that he would let a man's child be horribly murdered just to teach him, John Ramsey, a lesson!
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[louisa]

Regarding the white tape ligature that was found around JBR's neck......


"My file for May 21 1997, detailed my purchase of white nylon cord from the sporting goods section of McGuckin's. The price was $2.29. On Dec 2 1996, Patsy Ramsey purchased an item from the McGuckin's sporting goods section. The price was $2.29. The only item in the store priced at exactly that amount."

Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation
Steve Thomas pg. 260-261

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[louisa]

"When Burke was 4 he was the apple of his parents’ eyes. He could do no wrong. He got the full treatment of gifts, clothes and trips and you name it. But then when JonBenet came along, especially as she got older and her destiny was to be in the pageant system, that attention that Burke had switched from him to JonBenet.”

“I think Burke had a bad temper. It’s like he had a chip on his shoulder. He had hit JonBenet. Before the murder, I would have to say, it was probably a year and a half. They were playing in the yard and apparently he hit her with the golf club, right here [points to area under eye]. She [Patsy] says the kids were playing, Burke lost his temper and hit her with a golf club.”

The Ramseys, however, told police in their interviews that the golf club incident was purely an accident. How many other times had Burke hit JonBenet?"

https://shakedowntitle.com/2016/09/20/shakedown-stirs-up-old-insights-into-jonbenet-ramsey-americas-most-famous-cold-case-part-1/

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[Harry D]

Would love to find out the truth about this case. Hate to be a broken record, but of all the scenarios posited so far, none of them are convincing. B doing it and J&P covering him? Nope. J doing it, and P covering for him? Nope. J&P conspiring to do it? Nope. And the intruder theory is riddled with holes, too.

Is it possible (and I believe that Abby first suggested this), that there was an intruder who abducted and killed JBR in the basement. The Ramseys begin searching the house, whereupon their stumble onto JBR's corpse. They can't find any obvious sign of a break-in, other than the basement window and begin to panic, as to the untrained eye this stinks of an inside job. They wrapped JBR's body up carefully and create a phony kidnapping to deflect suspicion.

[Abby Normal]

Would love to find out the truth about this case. Hate to be a broken record, but of all the scenarios posited so far, none of them are convincing. B doing it and J&P covering him? Nope. J doing it, and P covering for him? Nope. J&P conspiring to do it? Nope. And the intruder theory is riddled with holes, too.

Is it possible (and I believe that Abby first suggested this), that there was an intruder who abducted and killed JBR in the basement. The Ramseys begin searching the house, whereupon their stumble onto JBR's corpse. They can't find any obvious sign of a break-in, other than the basement window and begin to panic, as to the untrained eye this stinks of an inside job. They wrapped JBR's body up carefully and create a phony kidnapping to deflect suspicion.

Hi harry D
yup it was me-just throwing things out there since none of the scenarios really make any sense. Lets call it the combined theory. : )
Pretty unlikely though out of all of them.

wicker suggested something along the lines of it was someone they knew, but implicated or made the ramseys look bad, so they tried to make it look like an unknown intruder. Specifically that Patsy was having an affair and it was this man who did it.

I think bottom line you have to throw out trying to fix to motive and just look at the evidence itself, which IMHO points to the ramseys.


Now having said that, Ive recently learned more about their housekeeper and or someone she knew, as a suspect and I think if it was an intruder that this would be someone I would check out thoroughly! It would explain a lot. as in inside job, but not the ramseys.